Comparing Warriors

[wrightjd]

I was looking over knights again, since they got bumped up to adepts and everything, and I was reviewing their point cost with other models of like ability. I find the shield maidens to be pretty close, as they are one less point and you swap 1 MOV and 1 MD for 1 MAV. What I find to be odd is the tomb guards, as they're one point less than the knights, but I guess my question is - is trencher really worth undead, 3 discipline, and one point? I was just contemplating fighting the nefsokar in an upcoming tournament and was just wondering about the price of the tomb guards in relation to other warriors of the same calibur.

[rcrosby]

My investigations have shown that Undead is being given a cost of -1 point. It does not make sense to me since Undead is often an advantage and rarely a disadvantage.

 

Rich

[Qwyksilver]

Trencher is a great SA. especially if you have a Cleric 3/14 with Innate (Holy Burst) to stick in the middle of a formation of Knights and Ironspines to keep em fighting. You don't need healing spells and can load up on cheap Dispells to nerf your exxpensive AOE spells. And if you target them to avoid the Cleric, she just heals up the wounded.

[jdripley]

Ask Ken (who's name on this board I forget) how he liked Trencher in the tournament yesterday. I got two Halberdiers behind Freya and she was just mowing orcs down left and right. Trencher is useless unless you decide to field reachers in your troop. So... do it! Yes this means you don't have as many adepts... but that's a small price to pay for them hitting as hard as they do. And as an added bonus you get 2nd line troops ready to go when your adepts bite it. Reachers are also excellent "coup specialists." Qwyksilver has done that to me for excellent effect - your front line soldiers cut down the tough enemy, and then the reacher, who hasn't made any actions (but who has contributed support!) can take one move to charge around to the stunned model, and another move to coup it.

 

It's my dream to one day have a halberd for each trencher in my army. Then I'll add in a totem and call it a win. Imagine warriors attacking at MAV 4 on defensive strikes! Yeesh! Freya would defend (twice!!) at MAV 6!

 

Trencher is definately worth it - just bring some reachers for goodness sakes :P

[Qwyksilver]

Ken = Yudaman

 

Not sure if he posts here, or just has an account on Warlord HQ though.

[wrightjd]

Trencher is a great SA. especially if you have a Cleric 3/14 with Innate (Holy Burst) to stick in the middle of a formation of Knights and Ironspines to keep em fighting. You don't need healing spells and can load up on cheap Dispells to nerf your exxpensive AOE spells. And if you target them to avoid the Cleric, she just heals up the wounded.

 

I don't think another model effects the point cost of another model within the faction :P. I agree, and would never contest the usefulness of Templar Knights, I don't think I've ever fielded a single crusader army without at least 6, and I've been playing Crusader's since release day. However, it just seems odd to me that a model can be thrown from grunt to adept without any point change, I thought adepts were a bit cheaper and that was the reason you could field less than the number of grunts. The point disparity before was alright in my mind because the Tomb Guards were adepts while the knights were grunts, now it just seems bizarre to me.

 

Ask Ken (who's name on this board I forget) how he liked Trencher in the tournament yesterday. I got two Halberdiers behind Freya and she was just mowing orcs down left and right. Trencher is useless unless you decide to field reachers in your troop. So... do it! Yes this means you don't have as many adepts... but that's a small price to pay for them hitting as hard as they do. And as an added bonus you get 2nd line troops ready to go when your adepts bite it. Reachers are also excellent "coup specialists." Qwyksilver has done that to me for excellent effect - your front line soldiers cut down the tough enemy, and then the reacher, who hasn't made any actions (but who has contributed support!) can take one move to charge around to the stunned model, and another move to coup it.

 

It's my dream to one day have a halberd for each trencher in my army. Then I'll add in a totem and call it a win. Imagine warriors attacking at MAV 4 on defensive strikes! Yeesh! Freya would defend (twice!!) at MAV 6!

 

Trencher is definately worth it - just bring some reachers for goodness sakes :P

 

Not contesting on the usefulness of trencher, I certainly love it as much as the next person. See above as to my reasoning :P.

 

Again, I love the knights and don't think that the knights are not worth every single one of the those 27 points, all I'm suggesting is that tomb guards might be worth about 2 points more than the 26 they go for .

[spiritual_exorcist]

Undead is often not a disadvantage, in fact it is often an advantage. But that being said, if one wants to design an army to combat models with Undead, then Undead can become a serious liability. Holy Light and Holy Burst are pretty effective. I acknowledge only one faction can use them, but they are still nasty.

 

I would say Trencher is worth the extra point if you put it to good use and make sure you have the Ironspines to back your Knights up...Even better IronRaven plus the Spear of Aurellius works wonders.

 

I don't mind paying that little extra for them, there are far better bargains when it comes to soldiers than Tomb Guards, lets look at Overlord Warriors which are essentially stripped down Knights to their bare essentials.

[Hellsgate]

You want two troops to compare that would make you go WTF???

Reptus:Narendra Rangers Vs. Merc:Shadowsisters

You can not tell me that +1mov/dis, tough/1, assassin and raider, are worth as much as mashwalker and 7pt

[Qwyksilver]

Marshwalker has a cost, and 7 points, when you're dealing with grunts is quite a lot. Points are often based on number of tracks, so adding in something to a 1 track model costs significantly less than a 2+ track. Tough/1 is very cheap. It starts getting very expensive at 3+.

 

Personally, I think they should just make Marshwalker a Faction Special Ability like the Elves have Ridgerunner and Woodrunner, and remove that point cost from every model in the Faction, but that's just me.

[spiritual_exorcist]

You want two troops to compare that would make you go WTF???

Reptus:Narendra Rangers Vs. Merc:Shadowsisters

You can not tell me that +1mov/dis, tough/1, assassin and raider, are worth as much as mashwalker and 7pt

 

What is your argument? That the Sisters are overpriced? Or Underpriced?

 

THey look pretty bang on to me. Assuming Marchwalker is 1 point you're talking about an 8 point gap. Meaning 2 points for each of the upgrades you've listed, that seems pretty fair. Especially when the reality of the situation is that the Sisters will have the exact same number to hit their opponents on, and the exact same number to be hit back as the Nagendra.

[Hellsgate]

I was meaning that the five stat increases/SA should be worth more than mashwalker and 7pt's. I'd been first told of them that weekend didn't really look at the model till I read this topic. So that was my original response. Now that I’ve gotten over the initial WOW , at them and actually had a close look I see that I put ALOT more value to speed than the average person, and over priced tough/1. I still don't think that they're and equal match, but they're close enough that it could be put down to, as I’ve said in a different thread, some armies are better at some things then others.

[ecs05norway]

Mmm. By my analysis: Marshwalker is worth 2 points. Raider is 1, Asassain might be 2. +1 move is 3. +1 Dis is 2. Tough/1 is 1. (Standard rule for Tough appears to be Tough/N is worth N^2.)

 

Shadowsister: +9.

Nagendra Ranger: +2, 7 points cheaper.

 

That balances pretty nicely.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Nagendra Rangers are a much much better buy ar 7 points cheaper. Other than Tough/1 and +1 Mov the other mods and abilities are very situational, meaning they won't come into play all that often.

 

I'd rather have the bare bones model that the Nagendra are, than a fancified Shadowsister which essentially does nearly the exact the same job in most circumstances (Don't get me wrong, Assassin and Raider are cool, but on a DV 9, 1 track model they push the models cost up too high).

 

If you want your Rangers moving Mov 7, buy a standard.

[ecs05norway]

You mean a Musician. And I a) don't want to play Reptus, and b) want them moving 8 with the Musician. :)

[spiritual_exorcist]

Yes, I mean a Musician, apologies

 

My comments were directed towards Hellsgate, who appears to see the Shadowsisters as a real bargain in comparison to his Nagendra.

 

Like I said, give me the Nagendra any day. nearly 40 points for a 1 track, 9 DV soldier is too steep for my liking (not to say they are overpriced, just that I'd sacrifice the Movement and special abilities for the more economical Nagendra if I had a choice).