Necromancer SA and Animate Corpse Spell

[Emmel Eitch]

question, if the corpse in question was an enemy with lots of equipment, even tho it ceoms back as a grunt, does it get to use that equipment?

I'll go with no on that.

 

Nothings final till its in print though.

[wildger]

I like the Necromancer SA. Whether a model with this ability be allowed to purchase generic spells depends on the rest of its abilities, stats and point cost. It does not seem that they have any extra benefits if their choices are limited to Necromancer ones. (i.e. They still have to pay the same cost to purchase the spells). My opinion is that they should be able to use both.

 

Animate Corpse is very interesting but how cost effective is it? This is a grade 2 spell. You need to spend 25 points for the spell, cast it and then can only move it in your next activation phase. How many zombies do you need to become an effective force? This one spell will not save you if you are losing the game. The only time when Animate Corpse becomes serious if there is a figure that has it as an innate spell.

 

I think that this spell should be able to be cast from a GF. I have no opinion whether summoned zombies should be counted for VP or not.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Arbiter10]

Animate Corpse is very interesting but how cost effective is it? This is a grade 2 spell. You need to spend 25 points for the spell, cast it and then can only move it in your next activation phase. How many zombies do you need to become an effective force?

 

Good points and a good question. As was mentioned a few posts back , zombies only cost 24 points normally. Why would a Necropolis player bother purchasing this spell for 25 points and run the risk of not even getting a zombie (if the casting check fails) when they can have zombies in their army right from the start for one point less and without having to use an action, risk a failed casting check, etc.?

[Qwyksilver]

I don't think Animate Dead will necessarily be all that effective as a purchased spell. It's real strength will be as an Innate Spell. Just like Undying Host. Most people will not pay for the spell. But people with Aysa LOVE the spell.

[jdripley]

1. Since a zombie costs 24 points, does it make sense that Animate Corpse costs 25? Wouldn't the points be better spent instead on "regular" zombies (when playing Necropolis) or on other soldier models (when using this spell with factions other than Necropolis)?

 

Naw, necromancy is just way too cool to pass up, no matter if it's cost effective or not.

 

I had an idea. Perhaps there could be a way to bring up Large and Giant based models as well? Perhaps make a special case where the necromancer has to sacrifice his movement in order to perform that tough of a raise. That would help balance out that you get a higher cost model with a 25 point spell.

 

Somebody else mentioned that this is like a bandage, but useable by a mage. Sortof yes, sortof no. Bandage will only work on single tracked soldiers if they have tough and have not been couped. Which can be fairly rare. Animate Corpse allows you to bring up non-tough soldiers, and it allows you to bring up couped soldiers. That's a big advantage over Bandage, so add that to having a mage use it and I think you've made up your 15 points right there. Then again there's a drastic range difference so maybe I'd better think on it more.

 

Cost of a zombie compared to cost of the spell... 1 point isn't anything to make a fuss about. Since Mages typically have high CP and it's a non-attack spell subject to the +2 modifer, I think this spell will go off more often than not. CP 7 and higher mages are auto casters on this. CP 6 has a 90% success chance. Most mages of lower CP aren't played regularly, so it's not a big deal. It's not like you'll waste the points.

 

Why not take a zombie... in a Necro list, I'm not sure. In a non-necro list, I like the tough/3 these guys have. I really like it. It's hard to find tough/3 outside of leaders.

 

I think I'm gonna make myself a Jos Gebblar army. I'll use Necropolis, Razig and Nefsokar's undead, probably Lysene or whatever his name is that you never hear about even though he's a sweet mage. Perhaps I'll use some DHL models and use some generic cards too because my normal play group is cool like that and the rulebook says you can make a left handed basketweaver's army or something like that, so certainly a Jos Gebbler's Necromantic Union 1488 Teamster's army would be allowed

[wrightjd]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but this is the real application: chattel. Not only do you get your free bandage out of them with the vampiric feeding ability, now you get to bring them back to pack an extra punch. At least, this is the best way I can think to use them.

[wildger]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but this is the real application: chattel. Not only do you get your free bandage out of them with the vampiric feeding ability, now you get to bring them back to pack an extra punch. At least, this is the best way I can think to use them.

 

Yes, but the spell is not free. Two Ice Shard spells are cheaper and may be more effective. One thing I want clarification is the position of the animated zombie. Does it come on at where the corpse laid? If yes, then it may be useful in a melee situation where you like to tie down an opponent figure.

[vejlin]

To give it a little more usefullness and flavor how about adding this in:

 

Franz' friends likely won't like the sight of him comming back as a zombie, how about forcing them to make a DIS check? Or giving the new zombie a free "ankle grab"-attack at models in base contact when it is created?

 

Watch a few zombie movies. The possibilities are truly endless for making this spell much more fun than it is now.

[jdripley]

Franz' friends likely won't like the sight of him comming back as a zombie, how about forcing them to make a DIS check?

 

 

I like the Dis check idea. That makes alot of sense. Of course Undead models would be unfazed by this and would be immune. I don't think it'd be too overpowered either.. plenty of models fall at range, and the dis check would have no effect then. In melee, the spell only has a range of 6, so your mages have to be in close. Jos has DV 10 and there are a few mages with good DV, but for the most part mages are fragile and it's a dicey move to put them within 6 inches of melee. So there's a big risk involved with raising a corpse up in melee. So it's probably not too powerful.

 

I've got a game going on tonight, I'm gonna build a Jos army and proxy it. Maybe I'll play a couple games and try out the rule as is and also with the dis check added, just so I have a clue what I'm talking about

[Brushmaster]

Personally , I'm a bit ho-hum about the whole spell idea . i'd like to see either one of 2 things happen , either increase the range to say 12" or make it an AOE spell centered on the caster and the AOE being 2 ".

[Qwyksilver]

Personally , I'm a bit ho-hum about the whole spell idea . i'd like to see either one of 2 things happen , either increase the range to say 12" or make it an AOE spell centered on the caster and the AOE being 2 ".

 

If you're making it an AOE spell, you'd be looking pretty much at a clone of Undying Host, just with very minimal fluff. It would also send it's cost up exhorbitantly.

 

Just give the fresh Zombies Horrid, and make sure the Necromancer has some way to differentiate between freshly risen zombies and the older, mustier ones, via pipe cleaner or something on the table. Horrid would work the same. Would emulate the shock of seeing a body you just killed or that was just cut down next to you rising back up and attacking.

[jdripley]

Just give the fresh Zombies Horrid, and make sure the Necromancer has some way to differentiate between freshly risen zombies and the older, mustier ones, via pipe cleaner or something on the table.

 

I just plan on using DHL zombie sculpts. The rule states that the zombies use the necro zombie stats, but doesn't specify what the sculpt has to be. I suppose it would be simple to just use the sculpt of the model that is killed. But I think a 4pack of DHL zombies would do nicely, I doubt you'd ever see more than that being raised in a battle... unless it was a huge battle w/o time limits.

 

Maybe if I get really creative I'll use Warlord grunts and paint their flesh all zombie like and put huge blood stains on their armor so they still look like the guys they were in life. I don't think I'll get that creative.

[Qwyksilver]

Do what tony does with his Spectral Minions, except instead of making them all ghosty, make them all zombified with entrails and blood.

[Stubbdog]

For me the benefit of the spell (innate or not) is to treat it like a poor man's version of Crusader Mercy. The ability to bring back to life the more powerful of my fallen enemies. Or bring back my own more powerful guys. Crusaders have that one spell that brings back to life, this is the relative evil version of the same thing. Of course I could bring back my own more powerful guys too.

 

Which of course leads to the nitpicky problem with it. Not the 25 point cost. That is fine with me. No, my nitpick problem would be the spell results. The fact that those brought back would only come back as slow as molasses, low DV, not very useful zombies. Yes tough/3 is nice, but its nothing special.

 

Personally, I would like to see something like the raised corpse would get its same stats from its last damage track it was on and not be able to be healed above that at all. Or possibly have it based on the type of model restored... If it was a single track, then yes it comes back as a zombie, but if it were a multi track model then it would come back with the last track stats and not have the ability to heal it any further from there.

 

So, here is where the point cost does come back into play a little. For 25 points I think I would prefer to use a cheaper life transfer than this to keep one of my powerful guys up than to get a little zombie.

 

I dont see wasting this spell to raise up just anyone unless its a last ditch effort. Again, as others have said, cause if that were the case I would just spend those 25 points on getting another grunt or soemthing that could be helping me from the start.

 

Summary is, 25 points is not a bad cost for the spell if the result is worth it. 25 points seems high if the result is simply a zombie.

 

Agreed that having it as innate (as Jos does) changes everything on the opinion of the spell from the point of view of the zombies. But, does not change the overall opinions I express above. Because, then just like with Aysa and the undying hosts, that is the only way the spell will ever really get used and I figure that Reaper game makers would prefer to have something more playable.

 

Just my 0.02

[jdripley]

I think your points are good Stubbdog. I dunno about "last track stats." In many cases a zombie has BETTER stats than a multi's last track.

 

Even with grunts, alot of them don't have the stats a zombie has. Most reachers, practically everything Necropolis has for grunts... zombie has higher DV and same or higher MAV.

 

I do think it'd be sweet to be able to bring more powerful models back with stats to reflect their special nature. I posted an idea previously about forcing the mage to sacrifice his non-combat action as well as perform the invoke SA in order to bring back large based models. Perhaps it could be based on point value instead and keep it as only standard based models. A mage who doesn't move is a sitting duck more often than not, so that's a steep cost (not in points but in very real ways), plus it is neat fluff-wise - the necromancer wants to bring up a more powerful dead and so must concentrate on his spell and wrestling with the will of the deceased much more, thus he can't be running around while doing it. And the result is "_________" Fill in the blank. Maybe a 2 track model. Maybe a one track with better DV and some nifty SA's or something. Who knows.