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Necromancer SA and Animate Corpse Spell


Stubbdog
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My thoughts exactly .What if the model you are trying to raise is for example , a hill giant and the result is a size 1 Zombie ????? :blink:

 

It is impossible to Animate the Corpse of the Hill Giant:

 

Animate Corpse

Casting Grade: 2 (Non Attack spell)

Points Cost: 25

Range: 6"

Area of Effect: NA

# Models Affected: 1

Damage: none

Notes: Causes one corpse model to reanimate as a Zombie. This Zombie uses the Datacard "Zombie" from the Necropolis Faction. Its actual affiliation matches the caster of Animate Corpse. The Zombie is considered a grunt, and activates with the caster starting with the caster's NEXT activation. The target corpse must be from a model that was on a standard base (regardless of its Size Value). Also, the model may not have had the Undead SA (you may only animate models that were alive at the beginning of the battle). [/i]

 

My emphasis added with Bold and Color.

 

This means the Model is on a Standard Base, but may have the SA: Big (thus Size 2 - such as Lord Iron Raven) or Small/Vile (thus Size 0 - such as Neek) and still be a member of the Zombie Zoo. Models on Cavalry, Large, Giant and Super Bases, irregardless of Size Value cannot be turned into Zombies.

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for example , a hill giant and the result is a size 1 Zombie

 

If you re-read the given rules set for the spell, you would see that the spell would not work on a Hill Giant. It only works on standard base sized models.

 

But, you could swap out any of the warlords into your example and get the same question...

 

To bring a fully decked out and equipment laden Crusader Duke back as a mere zombie with no items, well just kinda takes all the fun out of it.

 

 

Someone said they question my idea of bringing back a model stuck on its last track. While I agree that in some cases the zombie will have a higher MAV, my point was for someone like for example that Duke I listed above, he would have 3 attacks at that lower mav, plus warmaster. Now that would be worth raising from the dead now wouldnt it? Even if you couldnt heal it above the last track. That is worth 25 since it will be stuck most likely at a MAV1, but could have the benefit of some of its card based SAs.

 

It makes that 25 point spell worth casting. Whereas, as many have pointed out, raising anything whether it be a grunt soldier or a warlord to bring it back as a lowly zombie, may not be worth 25 points.

 

Then again this is just my opinion.

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My thoughts exactly .What if the model you are trying to raise is for example , a hill giant and the result is a size 1 Zombie ????? :blink:

 

It is impossible to Animate the Corpse of the Hill Giant:

 

Animate Corpse

Casting Grade: 2 (Non Attack spell)

Points Cost: 25

Range: 6"

Area of Effect: NA

# Models Affected: 1

Damage: none

Notes: Causes one corpse model to reanimate as a Zombie. This Zombie uses the Datacard "Zombie" from the Necropolis Faction. Its actual affiliation matches the caster of Animate Corpse. The Zombie is considered a grunt, and activates with the caster starting with the caster's NEXT activation. The target corpse must be from a model that was on a standard base (regardless of its Size Value). Also, the model may not have had the Undead SA (you may only animate models that were alive at the beginning of the battle). [/i]

 

My emphasis added with Bold and Color.

 

This means the Model is on a Standard Base, but may have the SA: Big (thus Size 2 - such as Lord Iron Raven) or Small/Vile (thus Size 0 - such as Neek) and still be a member of the Zombie Zoo. Models on Cavalry, Large, Giant and Super Bases, irregardless of Size Value cannot be turned into Zombies.

D'oh ! :rolleyes: Lost the finer points a few pages back .

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I'd like to see a "Zombie" that is based on the relative value of the Model being Animated.

For example:

 

0-75 points to field original Model (including all equipment and spells) = Necropolis Zombie Data Card

76-150 points = 2 track Zombie with a stat line similar to Crimson Knight, but with basic Zombie SA (Tough/3, Undead)

151+ points = 3 track Zombie with a stat line similar to Bloodseeker Vampire, but with basic Zombie SA (Tough/3, Undead)

 

Tweak the spell cost up a bit more, to something like 50-ish points (Bloodseeker Vampire costs 63 points, stock, but has Assassin, and I think we would have something that would see more use in the game.

 

Add a limit to it however, that if a Model has successfully been Looted, it cannot be animated. Whether this represents the near severing of a head by slitting the throat, a quick consecrating prayer by a comrade, etc. This can also justify the lesser point cost of the spell, since you are likely going to target 150+ point models. Forces your opponent to decide if they want to Loot their own model to prevent you from getting it.

 

This would still give people a reason to use the spell, because you'd get more than a basic zombie. Any model could be animated, irregardless of the base size. Just use the slain model with a marker to denote undead-osity.

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Agreed that having it as innate (as Jos does) changes everything on the opinion of the spell from the point of view of the zombies. But, does not change the overall opinions I express above. Because, then just like with Aysa and the undying hosts, that is the only way the spell will ever really get used and I figure that Reaper game makers would prefer to have something more playable.

It might just be the cheapskate in me, but I don't see the Innate Spell as anything other than making the Model more expensive than it would be otherwise. Jos with Innate Animate Corpse is nothing like Aysa+GF with Innate Undying Host. Jos can only use the ability if he happens to be within 6" of a corpse - dangerous or simply not possible on many turns. Aysa can use Undying Host every turn at full effect and can do so through her GF that has double moved to an advantageous position on the other side of the table. The new Zombie must wait until the following turn's Action Phase to be able to act while the new Spectral Minions are guaranteed to act at the end of the current Turn.

 

IMO Jos is best used as an normal but expensive CP7 mage (nice DV), so the Innate Spell is a novelty at best or a waste of points at worst.

 

Rich

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Necromancer SA: Model may be fielded in a Necropolis Default list or the Crypt Legion Sublist. If so, change its alignment to Necropolis/Evil.

 

When not being fielded in Necropolis Default or Crypt Legion Sublist, the model may still purchase Necropolis Faction Specific spells (but not equipment) as if it were a model being fielded in a Necropolis army.

 

Would a Necromancer SA model but not with the Undead SA, really be acceptable for the Crypt Legion Sublist? :wacko:

 

If not undead, surely they would not gain the advantages of the crypt legion, they shouldn't be subject to dark energy nor should they be able to heal themselves with Necromatic surges although they possibly could use Necromatic surges to heal undead around them.

 

Animate Corpse

Casting Grade: 2 (Non Attack spell)

Points Cost: 25

Range: 6"

Area of Effect: NA

# Models Affected: 1

Damage: none

Notes: Causes one corpse model to reanimate as a Zombie. This Zombie uses the Datacard "Zombie" from the Necropolis Faction. Its actual affiliation matches the caster of Animate Corpse. The Zombie is considered a grunt, and activates with the caster starting with the caster's NEXT activation. The target corpse must be from a model that was on a standard base (regardless of its Size Value). Also, the model may not have had the Undead SA (you may only animate models that were alive at the beginning of the battle). [/i]

 

Other questions, I'd have on the reanimated zombies are:

 

Are they part of a troop?

 

If they are part of a troop, then I assume it's part of the troop of the spell caster, do they count towards the total number of troops allowed?

If so, can the spell be cast if the troop is already at maximum and if it can what happens to the zombie?

 

If not part of a troop, is it subject to "all alone"? or does it gain benfits of being a solo or ronin model?

 

There seems to me to a lot of questions hanging around the above.

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Necromancer SA: Model may be fielded in a Necropolis Default list or the Crypt Legion Sublist. If so, change its alignment to Necropolis/Evil.

 

When not being fielded in Necropolis Default or Crypt Legion Sublist, the model may still purchase Necropolis Faction Specific spells (but not equipment) as if it were a model being fielded in a Necropolis army.

 

Would a Necromancer SA model but not with the Undead SA, really be acceptable for the Crypt Legion Sublist? :wacko:

 

If not undead, surely they would not gain the advantages of the crypt legion, they shouldn't be subject to dark energy nor should they be able to heal themselves with Necromatic surges although they possibly could use Necromatic surges to heal undead around them.

I think it makes perfect sense to me. Frankly, I was surprised when the Necropolis book came out that Malek was not part of the Crypt Legion list. He's a NECROMANCER! They have all these mindless or semi-mindless Undead. Someone needs to make them. One can argue that Moandain does all the work, but c'mon do you really think an Arch-Lich is going to spend precious study time making Skeletons and Zombies :blink:::D:

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I agree, necromancers as part of the crypt legion list makes sense to me, although I too am of too minds how the special abilities should affect them.

 

As for the animate corpse spell, (which I've been trying out a bit) it does seem a little expensive for what it is. You have to spend a turn to cast it (and not cast anything more powerful) to cast a 25 point spell that creates a 24 point model only if you're in a good (and probably dangerous) position to do so. I'd rather spend the points on an additional model in a troop which I can use from the start tbh and have my caster use other spells (because when you're at the right range to cast animate dead, it usually means you need to be busting out those big combat spells in my experience).

 

I mean, I really love the whole animate corpse idea, it's really cool and I like taking it just for fluff reasons and sheer style and adding insult to injury when you raise an enemy model (especially one of the big ones), but I'm not really doing myself any favours by doing so.

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Frankly, I was surprised when the Necropolis book came out that Malek was not part of the Crypt Legion list. He's a NECROMANCER!

 

Hehe, I made this same exact point a while back. It gets even funnier when you read the fluff in the faction book and find out that one of Malek's creations (the Bone Horror) can be used with the Crypt Legion. ::D: Of course, Malek may have been excluded for game balance reasons (i.e., to put a limit on how many mages are available to use necromantic surges).

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You could also argue that while Malek may employ skills beneficial to Moandain and his faction, Malek's loyalties or personal goals do not mesh with Moandain.

 

Just because you use Necromancy as a tool, may not guarantee that you want to spend your entire time hanging out with a Lich and his minions, who might decide to make you one of theirs.

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There seems to me to a lot of questions hanging around the above.

 

That's why this is a preview version and not final canon. It gives us a chance to kick the tires a bit and comment.

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to cause offence.

 

Raw options were asked for, and the questions posed weren't part of the original list.

 

Having been involved in the play testing of a few systems, now, I've always found that highlighting a problem early creates less trouble later.

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Frankly, I was surprised when the Necropolis book came out that Malek was not part of the Crypt Legion list. He's a NECROMANCER!

 

Hehe, I made this same exact point a while back. It gets even funnier when you read the fluff in the faction book and find out that one of Malek's creations (the Bone Horror) can be used with the Crypt Legion. ::D: Of course, Malek may have been excluded for game balance reasons (i.e., to put a limit on how many mages are available to use necromantic surges).

 

You again could ask why the grave horror is part of the list as according to the fluff, it only obeys the occupant of the throne of bone and that's Judas Bloodspire, who's hardly likely to have it rise up and march against the vampires.

 

My personnal take on the crpyt legion, is that they are all the "fleshless" undead, those whom if the reapers came back, wouldn't have as much of a problem with it i.e. those whom flesh or the need of the living has no calling.

 

Unfortuately, any "living" necromancer couldn't exactly be part of the legion, but any of their creations could.

 

I grant that Moandain, would happily use the services of Malek and Jos, as they can still regenerate their power from within, whilst he'd have to use other external means.

 

I still suspect that, Malek's datacard will be re-written/updated to give him the Necromancer SA, which now under the proposed rules would allow him to join the crypt legion.

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