Errata Updates - Request/Commentary

[joshuaslater]

I made the mistake of looking first in Warlord HQ. Is there any way you could pin some of these special abilities on the forum? I'm not trying to knock Reaper or the mods here, but having these special abilities out front would encourage business and the game to grow.

[lukash]

Please remember that a quick Search can often find the information.

 

/Rant

No offense meant (and this isn't directed at you), but why should Bobapple have to come to the company forum to find rules for a figure (and stat card) sold in a store? And even then, he has to submit some sort of "search" to find the answer? If you go to the Reaper website, you must figure out that you need to go to ReaperGames, and then click on the Warlord Banner, find the errata menu, look through all the errata, realize it isn't there, and then search threads on the forum only to find play test rules. Isn't that exessively convoluted? I think so.

 

I'm a big of a Reaper honk as anyone here (I've been involved with Warlord since the playtest days - see front of book - plus I used to pester Ed Pugh about the old Warlord rules by Max Carr when Apocalypse was still out), but Reaper has to be better organized than this. This situation is one many with this game that is not acceptable, IMO. Believe me, it bugs me to think or say that.

 

This isn't a big of threadjack a as you might think. I'm not speaking for Bobapple, but I suspect Bobapple was asking the question, in part, for me. Bobapple is a Black Lightning (!), I've got a history with the game, and between the two of us we couldn't figure out what Insane! meant...and we aren't exactly "casual" gamers, either. What is a complete newbie going to do or think about Warlord when confronted with this situation?

 

I encourage Reaper game designers to keep working with fans on the forums to make a great game for existing fans, but also remember there are many potential customers that won't be willing to go to the trouble of checking out the webiste, forums, and threads just to find rules for some figure they just bought. If the rules create confusion, are incomplete, or just poorly worded, then confusion, frustration, and apathy may follow. Thre are many skirmish games on the market right now (some of which are even discussed at this forum!) and I'm sure nobody wants something like missing rules to be the deciding factor for a customer.

 

Well, anyway, like I said, this isn't directed at anyone other than Reaper, and I do mean for this to be constructive criticism and not mindless woofing.

/Rant

[joshuaslater]

Right on, lukash. Right on.

[wrightjd]

I, for one, prefer web updates that I can easily download to having to buy a $30 book every three to six months. I don't want to spend $30 everytime I turn around just because a few rules have been updated, that would be absurd.

 

Sorry to drive this off topic, though this topic seems to have already been answered.

[Qwyksilver]

[MOD]

I have split these posts off from the Insane! thread, since the question has been asked and answered, and this is it's own subject

[/MOD]

 

From a Moderator perspective, I do not pin every rule discussion thread with Errata or new rule because if we did so, just the pinned topics alone would fill your entire screen. That is why there is Errata compiled on a semi-regular basis. In the absence of the information available in the Errata, since it is between updates, there was my recommendation of using the Search feature. Is it perfect? No. But it works, with very little effort. In a perfect world, the Errata would be updated the second Emmel submits a post regarding a rule change or new rule. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world, and the people responsible for keeping up the errata have to wear many hats. I think it is an area that we would all like to see some improvement in the future.

 

Regarding the Model being released with a SA still in beta version. You would need to address that decision directly with Reaper staff.

 

If I could hazard a guess. It's been a trend throughout Warlord's history that models have been released prior to a Faction Book release. It's also been a common thread to have any Special Abilities provided to us here on the Forum for models that have been released but the rules are not yet available. It's a beta version until it's published in the book, and allows us as players to experiment and kick the tires and give our feedback. So far, Distract, Swing Through, Insane!, Lock Shields, Delayment, Necromancer, Animate Dead are all examples of this process. With Dwarves, they were at a significant disadvantage in many eyes given the cost of their Warlord in 1501 battles. Releasing Logrim now helped address this need so Dwarves had another option before their book came out. The alternative could have been to just ignore the need and let the sculpt sit on a shelf until the Dwarf book became available.

 

I know myself, as Black Lightning, I make it a point to let people know about WarlordHQ during every demo, so they don't have to start at the Reaper Home Site and can go directly to the site they need.

www.warlordhq.com

[vejlin]

The problem isn't that it's available online for free (atleast not the way I experience the problem). The problem as I've experienced it is that the info I need is not easily available. You have to know that datacards can be found on reapergames, you have to know that some (but not all) errata and clarifications can be found on reapergames, and you have to know that SA's and some clarifications are to be found by searching the forum.

 

This is very confusing to the players, and especially new players. Worse still is that nowhere do you get told that this is how you find the info you need. You have to figure out for yourself. IMO the ideal situation would be if all the info I needed:

Datacards, errata, clarifications and new SA's were easily available through reapergames.

 

Atleast untill they're available through a gaming supplement like a faction book. Right now a new player can go down to his FLGS and pick up a mini with a datacard he has no way of knowing how works. And unless he goes to this forum and asks chances are he'll not find out till the faction book is released.

[ladystorm]

not that I have any control over this but....help by offering suggestions instead of just saying the current state isn't working....

 

I often see the complaint (most recently by vejlin as I've quoted his)

nowhere do you get told that this is how you find the info you need. You have to figure out for yourself

or

The problem as I've experienced it is that the info I need is not easily available. You have to know that datacards can be found on reapergames, you have to know that some (but not all) errata and clarifications can be found on reapergames, and you have to know that SA's and some clarifications are to be found by searching the forum

 

Where would the information (how to find things) be best located?

[bobapple]

not that I have any control over this but....help by offering suggestions instead of just saying the current state isn't working....

 

I often see the complaint (most recently by vejlin as I've quoted his)

nowhere do you get told that this is how you find the info you need. You have to figure out for yourself

or

The problem as I've experienced it is that the info I need is not easily available. You have to know that datacards can be found on reapergames, you have to know that some (but not all) errata and clarifications can be found on reapergames, and you have to know that SA's and some clarifications are to be found by searching the forum

 

Where would the information (how to find things) be best located?

 

I think there should be a definitive list of all SAs on warlordhq/reapergames.

 

Slightly off-topic. If a SA is in "beta" or "playtest" how can they know the points value for models that have that SA?

[wildbill]

Where would the information (how to find things) be best located?

 

Maybe not necessarily under the Data Cards link, but maybe create two additional links:

 

1) Special Abilities. This includes army specific abilities as well, such as Mercy and Bane. Maybe you could have a drop down menu like the data cards or something. Any errata on the SAs can be posted with them.

 

2) Purchased item. This includes Greater Magical Armor, Musician, etc. Any errata on these items can be posted with the items.

 

I don't think anyone would have tremendous heartburn with any of these links.

 

However, you do have to be careful with the suggestion "Go online". I do have players that do not have internet access at home. Yes, I do, and yes, the store does. But, that doesn't mean the store will allow them to sit on Reaper's website printing off stuff that they need (it is a computer used for store business, not personal). Plus, it doesn't mean I plan on shuttling the people to my house to allow them to use my computer either. I don't have time for that.

 

What I do instead, is print off any necessary changes that I can and give them to the relevant players. I've lost track of the number of v1.2 datacards I have passed out. My only suggestion for that is that after all of the faction books have been released, maybe redo the core book and include the basic stats for the armies, like you see now. Don't include sublists. Don't include army specific magic items. Include every little bit of errata that will have accumulated by then.

 

I think this is all doable. The question becomes: how much time do Reaper peeps have to implement this?

 

Wild Bill

[rcrosby]

Where would the information (how to find things) be best located?

I don't know why people are having trouble finding Warlord HQ. It's right there on page 2 of the core rulebook and all of the faction books except Nefsokar: http://www.warlordhq.com. Nefsokar says to go to http://www.reapergames.com where you have to figure out that you need to click the Warlord logo; there should be Warlord HQ and CAV HQ links on the side bar in addition to the logos since someone might think that the logos are just decorations and not know what to do.

 

From Warlord HQ you can get to the Forums and the Errata. However, to get the Data Cards, you have to register. I don't know if it was a conscious decision to restrict access to the Data Cards.

 

Beta rules should be listed in a pinned topic in the Rules forum. They should be removed once they are available in either a Faction Book or Errata.

 

The FAQ in the Rules forum can now also be pruned since most (all?) of that stuff has now been put in the Errata.

 

Rich

[rcrosby]

Also, if you start at http://www.reapermini.com and then click into "Games" and then "Warlord", you get a dead-end page instead of getting Warlord HQ. If you click on the "CAV" link instead, you get CAV HQ, so that is working right. At the moment, someone starting at reapermini.com has to know to first click into reapergames.com to get to Warlord HQ. The goal should be to get the customer directly to Warlord HQ from any "Warlord" link and then have everything readily available at Warlord HQ.

 

Rich

[vejlin]

It's not that people are having a hard time finding reapergames.com, but rather that SA's are hard to find.

 

I like wildbills suggestion. Haven't heard of anyone having trouble finding the datacards, so a similar link (or two) below the datacards I think would work really well.

 

It is probably important to add the word "beta" in bold red letters on the beta SA's though, or something similar so people don't come crying when the final version is different.

 

Adding an equipment and SA section like the current datacard section will also allow reaper to tweak SA's and equipment without having to publish a book.

[joshuaslater]

A pinned thread with the new SA's in the rules discussion, updated every so often is what I would suggest for starters. Secondly, having these SA's with the new datacards would be helpful too.

 

"K.I.T. Keep it together".