Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
joshuaslater

Sex and Violence

Recommended Posts

Aundine is definitely the best female sculpt. The Crusader females are generally good as well. I also like Nasithe (or maybe just the paint scheme in the core rule book - disappointed when I looked at the captions and discovered she wasn't the Witch Queen!) The Witch Queen's oversize head and the Paintender with the spring-loaded stunt cape don't work for me. I also don't understand the fascination with the S&M theme. Is it supposed to be a joke or just an adolescent fantasy? It is certainly a barrier to getting my wife interested in the game, and it's embarrassing to have such models around the younger kids at the store let alone encouraging them (and their parents?!?) to buy them.

 

Rich

 

'Not having kids of my own, I don't have the same concerns as the forum member I've quoted. I respect his viewpoint, but the Miss Taltos thread got me thinking about the dichotomy of sex and violence in fantasy miniatures games. So many tabletop games have the "chainmail bikini" vibe to the female warriors, and I find it ironic that people are more offended by the sexuality of the models than the fact that they are hacking and slashing people and monsters apart. Why is sex more threatening than violence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is "most Western culture is far more comfortable with violence".

 

See fairy tales and cartoons as examples. Sex is usually dealt with in a hopelessly sophmoric manor, if dealt with at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stay the course. "Candyland" is there for the kids. I demo kids from from around age ten on up, and have never had a problem with the imagery. In fact I've never had anyone express concern over any figures. And this is in the conservative stronghold of Cobb County, Georgia.

 

Sadly, perhaps, by the time they are ten, most kids will have been exposed, in one way or another, to far worse than the bare bottom of Fatima, or the whips and corsets of the Overlords. Warlord, for my money, is PG-rated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree completely. For Warlord, is this an issue? Should Reaper change their models to make this a "kid friendly" game, or stay the course?

 

While you always want to have fresh faces enter a game, what is the average age of your gaming group? For me, it would be in the mid- to late-20s, excluding one individual. He's around 60 or so. :poke:

 

I have no problems with a young person playing Warlord, so long as they are able to stay focused on the game. However, I don't think Reaper needs to focus Warlord on young kids. That would be a mistake, in opinion. Maybe start with the teenager crowd.

 

In my FLGS, there is a very young group of games (under 12) that tend to stick to Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh!. Now, I find those games absolutely revolting, but those kids just eat them up. The good news is they have parents who are willing to shell out hard earned cash for a collectible game. The bad news is that most of those kids have shown zero interest in table top miniature games. I'm not really sure why. If the parents found out that around a $100-150 initial purchase would allow their child to play competitively without having to buy anything else, I'm willing to bet they would come over in droves. But, I don't think that the kids would. Their mentality just doesn't seem to be there.

 

Remember, I am basing all of this on the kids I see regularly at my store, not yours. You may have young kids play with you on a normal basis and they have never heard of those card games. If so, then kudos to you! :upside: I have found that most of those kids are really annoying and in need of some decent manners!

 

Wild Bill :blues:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The nice thing about Warlord is that the armies can be bought and built to suit any age group. I respect the rights of parents not to have their kids exposed to mature-audiences or inappropriate material for their age group, but I also believe that adult consumers should still have options.

 

While I think it's fantastic to see eight or nine year old kids getting into gaming, the truth is that the "target audience" is the consumer who will be investing their own money in the game. The youngest kids we see at our game store almost always have a parent in-tow and the parent almost always seems to be making an effort to encourage the kid toward a hobby such as gaming that they feel will somehow enrich the kid. That in mind, it is reassuring to a parent to know that IF they decide to buy Warlord, they can pick out armies that are kid-friendly.

 

BTW I find it odd that the topic here stemmed from a discussion about how the models look. The core rules and faction books make no real attempt to whitewash anything..and if they did, would they be nearly as believable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put this post down separately because I didn't want to jack the "Miss Taltos" thread, where people were talking about their favorite Warlord female sculpts. The sex appeal of the sculpts versus the violence of the game and the age of the group is the direction I was aiming for here.

 

I don't think Warlord should change anything. If you're not into the S&M theme of the Darkspawn, you don't have to buy them, and you can put together armies where there are no naughty bits showing. I respect anyone's decision to do this, but I still find it ironic that sex is more of an issue for some than the violence of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one to notice this, and as was mentioned, it is hardly restricted to the Warlord game. Our society repeatedly accepts violence (real or imagined) much more readily than sexuality. We're a repressed society, and it shows. One only needs to look as far as movies to see what's happened. In the last 20 years or so, I'd hazard to guess that there hasn't been much of a change in the number of R-rated movies released. However, the R-rated movies of 20 years ago were often because of partial nudity. Today, they are almost exclusively the province of foul-language and violence. Why? Because we seem to be ok with violence, but not nudity. But what about the Internet, you say? The sex industry is booming there. Why? Because the internet is (relatively) anonymous, and because any normal measure of sexuality is being forced out of the mainstream.

 

It is little surprise that these attitudes carry over into the realm of games as well. I don't believe Warlord should change either; I field what would be considered a family-friendly army myself (Reptus lizards are hardly objetcs of sexual desire :lol:), and support anyone's decision to do so as well. I also support the person that wants to put together an army of nothing but scantily-clad babes, if that's what they want to do.

 

~v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with everyone's viewpoints here. Granted, we as parents (having three of my own), we would like to keep our children away from being exposed to sex and violence. It's just that in todays society, this is not possible. Just walking out your door, or going to school, you see it everywhere. I hate some of the female sculpts and their lack of clothing from a female point of view, because i hate how society makes women feel they have to be perfect, but i don't mind my kids seeing it. I just try to keep them away from full nudity or seeing the full act of sex or violence. Kids are being exposed to more adult things at younger ages these days, and that's not really something we can do anything about. We just have to keep the kids from seeing the models for only their visual appearance, but for their gameplay abilities, and i also think games are good for kids. It teaches them sportsmanship, and helps with brain functioning all around. While many parents may not agree with some of the sculpts, they also need to keep in mind what their kids are seeing at school or at the malls. We can't keep our kids from seeing things we may not want them to, only try to explain life to them, and the rights and wrongs of participating in violence and sex, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh. Try raising a kid while living in the heart of a red lights district. But seriously if a parent is concerned about what a nude 30mm mini could do to his/her kid, I'd like to know how they handle real issues. I mean is it really worth investing so much energy into keeping your kids away from tiny pewter boobs when they'll most likely be offered drugs at some point? If the kid is not equipped to deal with exposure to pewter nudity, how is he/she supposed to deal with anything in life?

 

Guess I'm just not seeing the problem. Again I might be a bit less sensitive from living in a red lights district and all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me (even though it obviously isn't) violence SHOULD BE the greater of the two 'evils'. Now I'm not saying that 6 years olds should be watching full on sexual acts. But I think a healthy view of sex is better than the unhealthy view of violence being ok.

 

But I also don't frown on our youngest local player (age 15) who is (if not as mature as he could be at times) I feel (and apparently so do his parents) is mature enough to be playing with the darkspawn and thier little pewter boobs. -I think his Catholic Schooling balances out any wierdness that could be created- ::P:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing to consider about our little hobby here. I don't know about most of you, but when I first began buying minis 20-some-odd years ago, it was purely to use them in my D&D games. As I've gotten older, that motivation persists, but has been replaced as the primary reason by a desire to collect beautiful miniatures. In other words, because they are art.

 

Sometimes it is easy to forget, because we play with them in our games, that these figures with their "little pewter boobs" are an artistic creation. I would have no more problem with a youth seeing my miniature collection than I would taking them to an art museum to see the statues of David or Venus. I certainly agree with SilverSerpent that there is no need to reinforce the phenominally flawed idea in our society that unless women comform to the media's standard of beauty that they are somehow worth less. But, I see little pewter boobs as being a far cry from the bombardment of the message from pop culture... and I don't see guys complaining about how all those "barrel-chested barbarian" minis are giving them an inferiority complex. :;):

 

Feh. At least we aren't talking about politics. :lol:

 

~v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both sex and violence have their context. I could go into more detail but I don't know wether family-friendly boards actually extend to the discussion of sexual mores?

 

Also, the discussion of depictions of violence and sex has been gone over in beekeepers. However, broadly speaking, I think popular culture does not glorify *random* violence, and has distinct trouble with the idea that violence can be legitimate (war, restraint, arrest, self-defence). However it does regard, implicitly, sex, attraction, and in point of fact, sexuality and the human being him or herself, as essentially meaningless, saleable commodities. THAT is what ticks me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just want to say thanks for keeping this a level headed discussion. I had fears this would have to be moved into Beekeepers. ^_^

 

And we've beaten the horse, called Malek over, had him reanimate it, killed it again and beaten that topic over there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree completely. For Warlord, is this an issue? Should Reaper change their models to make this a "kid friendly" game, or stay the course?

 

I don't think so.

 

Yes, there is room for a kid freindly mini's game but I think they are called Hero Scape and Hero Clicks. Don't get me wrong, the idea of a kid freindly Warlord has occured to me as well. But, how are you going to convence parrents to buy unfinnished metal miniatures for the kids so they can play with sharp hobby knives and spill paint all over? Lets face it, the pre-painted plastics have cornererd the kid market. In the end a kid freindly Warlord game would, In My Oppinion, not atract kids but would alianate us over thirty juviniles who are looking for some post preschool escapism.

 

All that being said, I think Darkspaw are the only army with issue of to little clothes. Again IMO. But the Darkspawn are evil. They are presented as pollar opisits and nemisis to Crusaders. So I don't realy have a problem with it. Then again I probably would not have much problem with Crusader nuns in chain mail bikini's except that would just be silly and wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...