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rgtriplec

The buzz about Reaper

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re: originality - We critters called humans have historical records going back, what 6,000 to 8,000 years, give or take a millenia here or there. Nothing.... NOthing is new. Not a lick of it. You could make an argument for technology changing things, but in many important ways, the phrase "the more it changes the more it stays the same" is very very true. In the area of art (which I think these games falls into) you stand on very thin ice indeed to claim that anybody is original. It's all been done before.

 

re: more factions, stats for dhl.. it's been said a bunch and I just want to reinforce it. Generic stats in the back of the book! Reaper doesn't even hide the fact that they want you to adjust stats and come up with something that's "yours." In fact they hand you several pages to get started with, and half of the formula they use to calculate costs. Much of the rest of the formula you can extrapolate by comparing existing models that have slight variations. You want a viking army, then make one. Same goes for ninjas or whatever else you like.

 

re: the rules. There's alot of debate in the rules section on awkward rules or whatever else. Half of those discussions are solved by simply reading the rule. After that there's Aysa's Innate ability. And there's debate on that, so it's not even like she's convincingly broken - and she's ONE model. LOS is another "big" issue and it's really not that complicated. Remember that Reaper's rules say "before the game starts figure out what blocks LOS or grants cover etc. So if you get in the middle of a game and questions pop up it's YOUR fault not Reaper's.

 

re: Scenarios... use your imagination. I've fought for control of sacred artifacts, appeased a dark god of retribution and tried to stop my opponent from gaining the god's favor. I've stormed castles. I've seen a kingdom try to overcome a rampaging dragon. I've battled in an arena for fame and glory. And I haven't even TOUCHED the stunt rules yet! Warlord's rules are simple enough to be easy to use, but they're also complex enough to allow quite a bit of variety in play style. You like characters? So for a game fudge the troop rules and play with alot of characters. It's not a video game with static rules, it's a tabletop skirmish game with rules you can fudge. So fudge away and have fun!

 

I don't know if I sound like what a "fanboy" is or is not... I suppose a fanboy would argue for a rule system regardless of obvious errors. I just don't see obvious errors in this game. Perfection won't be attained, so I don't fault Reaper for having an imperfect system. But Warlord is fast, fun, and very versatile, and I like that. So sue me :D

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HOW DARE YOU, SIR!

 

SUGGEST PEOPLE HAVE FUN WITH THEIR GAMES!

 

;)

 

 

Honestly - you don't sound fanboyish at all. I agree that much of the fun in warlord is using the base rules and comming up with your own little scenarios and whatnot. It is fast and fusious - and despite its imperfections, quite a bit of fun :)

 

PS - the stunt rules are great untill someone throws your very expensive character from a battlement. ;) I'm looking at you, Lanse. ;)

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<MOD>

Sorry to interrupt.

We've followed this for a few days now and the opinion of the polled Mod Staff is this thread does not fit into General Fantasy.

 

We are undecided where it fits best.

 

If this thread is to continue a Warlord centric discussion it will be moved to Reaper Games>Warlord>Warlord General Discussion.

 

If this thread is to continue more of a Reaper company discussion it will go into Reaper Discussion>Reaper General.

 

The possibility of splitting the thread and putting half in each still exists.(least favored option)

The relocation will occur sometime today.

</MOD>

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No need to get litigious this early in the mornin' man. I'm lukewarm about Warlord, not screaming its praises or shooting it down.

 

Regarding originality, yes that's one thing I'm not so inspired by in Warlord.

Wargods of Aegyptus: whoa!!

Warmachine: nice twist on robots, steampower and sorcery

Chronopia: all the "generic" races turned sideways and presented unlike any other game.

Dark-Age: based on Brom, again, looks like no other game.

Warlord: D&D basically.

To say that nothing new has happened in Tabletop Wargaming would be wrong.

 

Generic cards in the back of the book. Cool. Why not just release the rubric too? I play what I like with Warlord, and we fudge what we like. If I want all twenty four broken fodder on the board in a 1500 point game, we just rock out and do it. By suggesting Reaper simply put out a data card for a great DHL sculpt, it isn't such a big deal. Sure we can use a generic card, but why Reaper doesn't have some of their extensive line in play is a mystery. Put out a cool new data card for an existing model. Track the bar code sales of said model. Reaper can formulate their business model from there. It costs them nothing to have a PDF of a data card! Why shouldn't players who've supported them get a little extra?

 

The rules: fast and fun, beer and pretzels. Warlord is simple to learn and difficult to master, like any good game. My only gripe is that ALL the rules changes, data card changes, new SA's, and FAQ's relating to them should be in one place on this forum. Again, put yourself in the shoes of a new person around here with no idea what Warlord's about.

 

@Jim--you're no knee-jerk fanboy. We're actually discussing here. Again, it's Warlord and Reaper's rep in the biz we're dissecting. We all want to see it go forward, but from the way it's tankin' around here, it's time to stir things up.

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I think that "Just release datacards for the DHL models" is waay more complicated than it appears to be.

 

 

I can definately see how it could be. I, personally, in a perfect world - would think it would be really cool if there was a template a picture of the new model could be stuck into, with some stats (could be derrived from the generic stat cards) - and a little bit of fluff about the character. Like why is ashkrypt a transvestite liche? ;)

 

However, for nice pictures, this would require that someone paint the model. And someone needs to spend the time writing fluff for it (Remember the fluff for Warphamster and 40k took well over 25 years to really develop, and if you read some of the early stuff there are all sorts of inconsistancies and really rather.. stupid.. bits - but over 2 decades it has become more refined to what it is now .. with less inconsistancies and still some pretty stupid stuff ;>)

 

Then if the cards are put up as PDFs online, there isn't too much overhead cost other than the time it takes to make the card and the bandwidth hit that people DLing PDF cards might cause. If they were for sale, there is then quite a bit more overhead as the cards would need to be printed in house - so you hace the costs of supplies, toner etc.. and the time and effort it takes to seperate the cards. IF you send them out to be printed, there are a whole new set of logistical concerns. Then if the cards are supposed to be included in the with packaging, there are logistical problems there and the price of the mini goes up to cover these things - which makes people (like me) complain.

 

My sweetheart makes toys, and one of the big concerns about childrens toys these days is that they more or less take the imagination out of kids play. I also tend to like the mysterious background that the DHL model I just popped out of the blister might hold. I might see him as a witch hunter with a murky past, while another might see him as a bumbling aspiring mage. I somewhat make this arguement with all the new d20 suppliments that are out these days - it's almost like a DM doesn't need to really imagine anymore, they can just pick up a ton of books and have a shake and bake campaign (not to say the imaginative people will stop being imaginative, but if they chose not to be there are still a ton of options).

 

<MOD>

Sorry to interrupt.

We've followed this for a few days now and the opinion of the polled Mod Staff is this thread does not fit into General Fantasy.

 

We are undecided where it fits best.

 

If this thread is to continue a Warlord centric discussion it will be moved to Reaper Games>Warlord>Warlord General Discussion.

 

If this thread is to continue more of a Reaper company discussion it will go into Reaper Discussion>Reaper General.

 

The possibility of splitting the thread and putting half in each still exists.(least favored option)

The relocation will occur sometime today.

</MOD>

 

Why not stick it in OTR? We are a bit all over the place here - so everything can go into one place without splitting.

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Tough call. I don't think it's easily split. When I go into Abington Games or Roundtable Games, all I see is Warmachine. There is precious little Warlord. Warlord is Reaper's game, and its buzz. Trying to make comparisons to others systems, fluff wise, mechanics wise, and model wise, is going to incorporate much discussion regarding both the game, Reaper as a company putting out a game, and Reaper as a company competing with all the other ones out there.

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Josh, at this point I think you are beating a dead horse. We have already said that the reason Warlord is not beating any of the systems out there is it is too generic. That simple.

 

Creating cards for every model is going to be too laborius and a point system will open to the door for abuse. If you want Warlord to take off a your store, you have to help it. Run demos, ask people to play show it off with nice painted armies.

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'Back from lunch. Okay. All agreed on the generic nature.

 

We're going to run some Warlord events at Abington games with the few players we've got, despite no interest from previous demos. Maybe we'll pull another player or two in, and can run some tournament play.

 

My last kick on the dead horse remains the same about the new cards, SA's, rules FAQ's, etc. being in one place. I've got an order in for models with some of these abilities, and for as much time as I run my mouth here and surf around, it would be handy to print'em out with everything else.

 

It would help those of us in the field to have it all in one place.

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Josh -

 

Register at www.reapergames.com

 

Under the Warlord section you'll see a help section in which are the data cards, organized by faction as well as eratta and other useful downloads like the razig list, generic data cards, campaign forms etc..

 

I think that is what you are looking for.

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Been there. Done that. I see the data cards are there, and I printed those for my Darkspawn ages ago, but I haven't seen the special abilities. I'll look again.

 

Off the top of your head, are the abilities like Butcher, Poison, etc. in the errata or someplace else?

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Ok, I haven't been around the forums that long, but it's become obvious to me that the only way Warlord cards are going to be created for every model in the DHL line (or even just some of them) is if it is a fan driven project - IE, that means that, we, as fans, do it.

 

I don't beleive that this is because Reaper doesn't want to do the cards - I'm sure they know that having cards available would help their DHL and Warlord sales to some extent. But I think they probably have a better idea than we, as fans, do about just how much of return. Since they're not doing it, then my guess is that they are focusing their energies on things that give a better return.

 

So instead of approaching it the way of "Hey, why doesn't Reaper do these cards?" time and time again, let's take a different apporach and say "Hey, Reaper - will you help us, as fans, create Warlord cards for your DHL miniatures by providing some templates we can create our card in, and a gallery to submit them to?"

 

Based on another thread here where Kit revealed he was prescient and that they are working on a DHL section of the website similar to the Warlord/CAV sections before someone actually asked, a project like this would be a good fit for it. If Reaper provided some basic templates and guidelines for submitting the cards (like a copyright release for the pic of the mini you provide) and a place to submit them to, then whether or not the cards come about becomes our responsibility - that is, if we, as fans, really want to see DHL datacards, then we as fans will have to step forward and do it.

 

Reaper doesn't even need to step forward and provide the templates or the hosting if they don't want to. It would be nice if they did, because it would give things a more consistent feel and a somewhat official stamp of approval, IE, like providing a slightly different background to distinguish fan created cards from official ones, etc.

 

I have more ideas on how this could work, but I won't expound on them here unless asked to by a reaper peep.

 

Been there. Done that. I see the data cards are there, and I printed those for my Darkspawn ages ago, but I haven't seen the special abilities. I'll look again.

 

Off the top of your head, are the abilities like Butcher, Poison, etc. in the errata or someplace else?

 

Not special abilities, but you may want to take note of the spells/equipment list that ReaperBryan posted here this morning at about 2 hours ago.

 

That looked to me like they are definitely listening to us and beginning to compile this type of info.

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That's what I'm talkin' about!! Believe me, the buzz around Reaper's Warlord game will improve if things are consolidated.

 

Fr'instance--say we organize a Warlord day at Abington Games, and by sheer luck, get 5 or 6 people interested in the game. I can tell them all they need is the core book, a printout from an EASILY found website, and some models and they'll be more inclined to jump aboard. Once they have those, if they get into it, a faction book may be their next buy.

 

I'm not a Black Lightning guy, but I do enjoy the game enough to want others to fight. I'll look like a schmuck if I have to tell prospective new players that rules for the new models they just bought are floating around somewhere, and they have to hunt them down. Big turnoff.

 

This is directly addressing some of the gripes I've heard on other forums from people who may not have wanted to say so here.

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My thoughts:

 

First, for the fan driven DHL datacards, all we need to do is get some ReaperPeep to put up a blank generic Warlord data card front. Then the user would have to pit in a symbol for the army, put in the alignment, along with all of the other info that goes on the front (model type, MAV, mov, unique status, etc) and then put a pic of the painted model in the middle, and then put the proper stats based on the rules from the back of the book below it, the kind of format Reapergames.com used to have. Then submit the pic to Reaper, and have it posted in a special fan created army section.

 

As for Warlord's lack of fluff. There's fluff in the core book, and in the faction books. I have the Crusaders and the Necropolis books. When reading the fluff parts, I honestly could not put them down. There's some more fluff in Casketworks, and it's great. If Reaper were to put out Warlord novels, I'd buy every one of them. I'm hooked on Warlord's background, and could care less about Warhammer fluff. I guess I'm in the minority there.

 

 

 

-Krztoff

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