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rgtriplec

The buzz about Reaper

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First, for the fan driven DHL datacards, all we need to do is get some ReaperPeep to put up a blank generic Warlord data card front. Then the user would have to pit in a symbol for the army, put in the alignment, along with all of the other info that goes on the front (model type, MAV, mov, unique status, etc) and then put a pic of the painted model in the middle, and then put the proper stats based on the rules from the back of the book below it, the kind of format Reapergames.com used to have. Then submit the pic to Reaper, and have it posted in a special fan created army section.

That was my original thought, and it would be rather simple for Reaper to do up front. It could, however, lead to problems for people not used to desktop publishing, image programs, etc. That could lead to support issues, more complaints, etc.

 

I think a better solution would be a web form front end. You fill out the webform with the model number, stats, factions, etc then upload your picture, and as it's submitted to the fan army section, all of it's stats are entered into a database and an image of the card compiled and posted. A little more intensive up front, but in the end it makes submitting a card easier for us, maintenance of the card gallery easier for them, all the cards are more consistant in quality regardless of who submits it and most importantly, searching for all fan created cards for a given model or ability becomes easier. Depending upon how they currently figure point values for cards, that could even be built in, so that all fan submitted cards are assigned point values using the same system.

 

Given the work that Gus did on the Warlord search engine of his and he now works for them, we know they have someone with the know how to make most, if not all, of that work - the big question is, do they have the time and desire? I hope they do, but I'm certainly not going to stop playing/supporting Warlord if they don't.

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You make a good point. I could see how some MS Paint created monstrosities could be a turnoff.

 

Even if people just churned out data cards in the form they're currently in on Reapergames.com. No pic or front of card at all, just a name and stats. Something generic like Viking Grunts, Viking Breakers, and Viking Bowmen. Just make appropriate stats and pick SAs that fit, and let somebody put up pics for them when/if they become available.

 

Allowing that would probably result in more complete lists faster, which might get more people buying DHL figs and painting them up sooner.

 

In addition, it wouldn't make everybody automatically see figure X as a certain model for warlord. Maybe one person thinks Barbarian X is great for a captain, and somebody else thinks Barbarian X is great for a solo. If you just give stats and names (Names created for the warlord list, not actual DHL names), people can pick whatever fig they think it appropriate, without any existing bias.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

-Krztoff

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If anyone's interested in some effort that's been done along these lines, I could revive my Moonscar Court project. :P

 

That is a very cool project, I have been thinking about building that army. I have the link saved on my computer.

 

That would be a perfect army for the first popcorn book if they ever come out. There are even more frog models now than when you did the project.

 

re: more factions, stats for dhl.. it's been said a bunch and I just want to reinforce it. Generic stats in the back of the book! Reaper doesn't even hide the fact that they want you to adjust stats and come up with something that's "yours." In fact they hand you several pages to get started with, and half of the formula they use to calculate costs. Much of the rest of the formula you can extrapolate by comparing existing models that have slight variations. You want a viking army, then make one. Same goes for ninjas or whatever else you like.

 

Some people don't want to bother with generic data cards for various reasons. One that seems obvious to me is except in friendly games they are unplayable. I couldn't field a halfling army in a tournament where I game. Another is they are just that... generic. In order to make stat cards you need to have what SA's cost and the book doesn't cover that. Other people just want what they feel is official.

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If anyone's interested in some effort that's been done along these lines, I could revive my Moonscar Court project. :P

 

That is a very cool project, I have been thinking about building that army. I have the link saved on my computer.

 

That would be a perfect army for the first popcorn book if they ever come out. There are even more frog models now than when you did the project.

And this thought never ceases to bring me joy.

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re: more factions, stats for dhl.. it's been said a bunch and I just want to reinforce it. Generic stats in the back of the book! Reaper doesn't even hide the fact that they want you to adjust stats and come up with something that's "yours." In fact they hand you several pages to get started with, and half of the formula they use to calculate costs. Much of the rest of the formula you can extrapolate by comparing existing models that have slight variations. You want a viking army, then make one. Same goes for ninjas or whatever else you like.

 

Some people don't want to bother with generic data cards for various reasons. One that seems obvious to me is except in friendly games they are unplayable. I couldn't field a halfling army in a tournament where I game. Another is they are just that... generic. In order to make stat cards you need to have what SA's cost and the book doesn't cover that. Other people just want what they feel is official.

Ignore the Reaper logo to the left, as this is nothing official. I just wanted to chime in with how I used to handle this - proxies! When I built my home-brewed army, instead of using the generic stats in the back of the book (which my local players didn't like), I just picked existing stats out of the rulebook and used those. So my halfling berzerkers used the Skeletal Breaker stats, and my Owlbear used the Minotaur stats. That way my home-brewed army just became a freelance proxy army, and I never had complaints from other players about it, since they knew the stats were balanced. ^_^

Just thought I'd chime in with how I used to use my piles of Dark Heaven minis...

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Yup. That's an easy way to have your own custom army, just grabbing a stat line from the book for an existing model.

 

Concerning Reaper's buzz with Warlord: any progress getting the new SA's compiled? When my order arrives I'd like to know what the cool SA's on the data cards do. I'm betting people I demo the game for would too.

 

Someone suggested yesterday I look on WarlordHQ--I didn't find'em but I'm more like Jed Clampett on a computer so I may have missed it. Point me in the right direction.

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Ignore the Reaper logo to the left, as this is nothing official. I just wanted to chime in with how I used to handle this - proxies! When I built my home-brewed army, instead of using the generic stats in the back of the book (which my local players didn't like), I just picked existing stats out of the rulebook and used those. So my halfling berzerkers used the Skeletal Breaker stats, and my Owlbear used the Minotaur stats. That way my home-brewed army just became a freelance proxy army, and I never had complaints from other players about it, since they knew the stats were balanced. ^_^

Just thought I'd chime in with how I used to use my piles of Dark Heaven minis...

 

That's what I encourage local players to do as well. It's sometimes funny reading character fluff and then looking down to see the same stats as every other character of the same type.

BTW we never complain but when you proxied Woody the Halfling for Rauthuros it was too much. :lol:

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It's interersting to see how close Reaper came to filling some of the requests for Warlord in this discussion when they came out with Dark Hheaven Apocalypse. Kjord had Norsemen types, Heimdall the barbarians and instead of Reven they had Orcs from the Monglash Steppes. The Monglash Orcs were supposed to be a highly civilized race. They had Razig and his undead pirates in the 1998 game as well. Going beyond the traditional undead of Necropolis were the ubber undead called Dire Dead which had some unique abilities. I liked the DHA world enough to continue using it for my scenarios even though I apply the RAGE rules of Warlord now. Whether you use generic stats or proxy existing data cards it seams that Reaper has from the beginning encouraged players to go beyond the listed armies. 90% of my games are scenarios with companies of my own creation. Too bad if the game isn't catching on.

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Originality in a world of billions of people is both overrated and very rare. Every wargame is either a rip-off/homage to tolkien/D&D or a rip-off disguised with a twist. If you evels are tall and your dwarfs are surly, you're not original, even if your Orcs are not mindless and instead, primative Klingons.

 

There is nothing wrong with having "Yet another D&D" world. Every GM and player group has their own, even if they are playing in Greyhawk.

 

It's not about uniqueness, it's about the stories. Some settings have great stories built-in, others have more room for the players to tell their own. The fluff sohuld be cool, the rules good for competitive play and the potential for games should be good enough. Then you have a good game of toy soldiers and faerie stories about which to obsess in unhealthy ways that make your wife (or mom, if you still live in her basement), cringe.

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My thoughts:

 

First, for the fan driven DHL datacards, all we need to do is get some ReaperPeep to put up a blank generic Warlord data card front. Then the user would have to pit in a symbol for the army, put in the alignment, along with all of the other info that goes on the front (model type, MAV, mov, unique status, etc) and then put a pic of the painted model in the middle, and then put the proper stats based on the rules from the back of the book below it, the kind of format Reapergames.com used to have. Then submit the pic to Reaper, and have it posted in a special fan created army section.

 

As for Warlord's lack of fluff. There's fluff in the core book, and in the faction books. I have the Crusaders and the Necropolis books. When reading the fluff parts, I honestly could not put them down. There's some more fluff in Casketworks, and it's great. If Reaper were to put out Warlord novels, I'd buy every one of them. I'm hooked on Warlord's background, and could care less about Warhammer fluff. I guess I'm in the minority there.

 

 

 

-Krztoff

 

Back in the day, I wrote fluff for several factions, lil stories to use in the core rulebook. While I still got a free book from it, it was all thrown out, and the factionaly fluff was all replaced by some drunk rambling in a tavern about each faction! Total cop out, and not that engaging.

 

Seriously, it's the weakest fluff in a core rulebook of any wargame I own..

 

Now the factional books may be better, but I haven't bought any.

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To be tactful about it, the background of Taltos is a few short pages compared to other gaming systems out there. Maybe they were going for a younger market, but the background seems a little juvenile.

 

The whole, Good, Evil, Neutral thing I could have done without as well. It's a little too hackneyed. I would have preferred a darker fantasy setting where the different races/factions all had their motivations, alliances, betrayals, and history.

 

The Crusaders in Warlord are a little too goody-two-shoes for me to stomach, especially after reading about the Crusades here on Earth. Mercy didn't seem to be around much.

 

This goes back to matters of taste and style. Some people will like it, and others won't, but one thing that is decisive is that Reaper did not develop an extensive backdrop with fiction to flesh out Warlord, as compared to other games on the market.

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There is a trade off with the number of pages and what you want to accomplish within those pages with any ruleset. Fluff is going to lose first, you can't sacrifice rules for fluff. Now the campaign portion maybe could have been sacrificed instead of the fluff. But most rulesets only play lip service to campaigns so this was a nice addition to the warlord book. Generic stats appear so seledom that I think they are well worth the few pages they occupy. I wouldn't touch the painting section that is short, comprehensive and I value my rulebook as much for that as the rules themselves. Fluff can always come later, for those of you who remember 1st edition Warhammer, there was almost no fluff at all. GW has spent years on that stuff, I'm not sure that Warmachine provided much more in their first rulebook either, but then Warmachine did start out as an RPG first and a miniatures game second though. I know RPGers that were upset that the miniature rules sidetracked the RPG for so long. Fantasy Rules (which is excellent by the way) has no fluff what so ever, it doesn't suffer at all because of this. In the end it has to be rules and miniatures first, fluff second.

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