The buzz about Reaper

[kristof65 26966]

This goes back to matters of taste and style. Some people will like it, and others won't, but one thing that is decisive is that Reaper did not develop an extensive backdrop with fiction to flesh out Warlord, as compared to other games on the market.

And that, in my opinion, is a Good Thing. Warlord has just enough fluff to get the gist of the various factions and give them some life of their own to serve as inspiration, but not so much you can't drop variations into your own campaign without people going "hey, that's not how they are in game XXX!"

 

I like running miniatures battles set within my roleplaying campaigns, as do my players. Even if the battles themselves aren't part of the roleplaying campaign itself. For example, Crusaders, with some minor changes to fluff, now become Knights of the Dragons Flame (a knightly order dedicated to protecting priests) while the Sisters of the Blade become the Nishellans (an order of women mercenaries/assassins). There's just enough fluff that people see the connection, not so much that they question it - as they do with my variation of elven wardancers.

[joshuaslater 1890]

Hence the Warlord line being an extension of Roleplaying Games, and their predominant backdrop, i.e. D&D. With this paradigm, Warlord models will continue to sell even when other game systems bite the dust. It's good business sense, granted, but not to everyone's taste.

 

As far as the mechanics and fluff go however, I feel that it's a case of a miniatures company saying "we've got all these models, may as well have a game to go with them".

[Evilbob 67]

OK, here's my suggestion. (but I am a huge fan of fan-driven stuff)

 

I have the old non purple Warlord Card. It is all blank. If yall and Reaper both say 'go' I'll post up a forum, you submit a photo of the mini, along with which generic card or proxy card you want, and a paragraph of fluff. I'll put the cards together and post 'em back up. It can be a non-competitive contest of sorts.

 

What do ya think?

[joshuaslater 1890]

Like I said, I'm lukewarm about Warlord, but it's not stopping me from picking up a bunch of Warlord minis tonight at my FLGS.

 

As for your idea of the forum and fan based cards, I'd like to see it and participate.

[Froggy the Great 61746]

OK, here's my suggestion. (but I am a huge fan of fan-driven stuff)

 

I have the old non purple Warlord Card. It is all blank. If yall and Reaper both say 'go' I'll post up a forum, you submit a photo of the mini, along with which generic card or proxy card you want, and a paragraph of fluff. I'll put the cards together and post 'em back up. It can be a non-competitive contest of sorts.

 

What do ya think?

 

Start a new thread, and I'll pin it for you, assuming the Reaperfolk who actually work for Reaper don't mind.

[Evilbob 67]

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24842

[Crusoe the Painter 69]

There is a trade off with the number of pages and what you want to accomplish within those pages with any ruleset. Fluff is going to lose first, you can't sacrifice rules for fluff. *chop*

 

The text that replaced it was the same length as the text that was submitted, not only by me, but others as well. We were given a page/word limit to stick to.

 

I don't know why the yank was made, or why no one talked to us. We were all bummed to see the work pulled, and replaced with something that frankly is rather bizzare.

[kristof65 26966]

I don't know why the yank was made, or why no one talked to us. We were all bummed to see the work pulled, and replaced with something that frankly is rather bizzare.

I completely understand why you're bummed, and not having seen your work, I certainly don't want to seem to be putting it down - However, I rather liked the way the Warlord rulebook did the fluff. For the few pages it was in, it certainly gave me a good feel for each faction and was refreshingly different in style from the trends in other table top games. Definitely better than the GW style of fluff in the late 90s (can't speak for their style since then).

[jdripley 11]

This is a tough topic to come to a conclusion on because of the wide variety of taste on all the issues.. fluff content and length, rules, etc. Some of the things people are pointing out as negatives are things that I and others like. And vica versa. So how in the world can they fix it? If they switched tracks on each of these issues, nobody would be happy and we'd be playing a completely different game!

 

I think one thing that can be decided is that the minis are good :D

[kristof65 26966]

MODS! Quick! Lock this thread now that jdripley has summed it up so nicely! ::): ::):

[matsumoto 10]

Well Spoken, Kristoff!

 

despite the good morsels dropped here and there, i have seen the same course served at THIS dinner table many times.

 

what a spicy meatball.

 

i think i'm gonna attack fanboys here pretty soon! Cherrio!

 

[smokingwreckage 9134]

To be tactful about it, the background of Taltos is a few short pages compared to other gaming systems out there. Maybe they were going for a younger market, but the background seems a little juvenile.

 

The whole, Good, Evil, Neutral thing I could have done without as well. It's a little too hackneyed. I would have preferred a darker fantasy setting where the different races/factions all had their motivations, alliances, betrayals, and history.

 

The Crusaders in Warlord are a little too goody-two-shoes for me to stomach, especially after reading about the Crusades here on Earth. Mercy didn't seem to be around much.

 

This goes back to matters of taste and style. Some people will like it, and others won't, but one thing that is decisive is that Reaper did not develop an extensive backdrop with fiction to flesh out Warlord, as compared to other games on the market.

 

It is a source of relief to me that the Crusaders were not yet another Spanish Inquisition. While I do enjoy primarily fairly dark fiction, I think the wargames segment of the fantasy genre has ended up with a distinct lack of heroic narrative. Every now and then it's nice to admit that not everyone is a bastard, and parade around in shiney armour and a white hat.

 

Warlord, Taltos and the rest of Reaper's world is built to accomodate the assumptions of the D&D cosmos. I actually think it can be a pretty interesting and complex way too look at a fantasy world if you really actually dig into it and start thinking about the implications rather than using it as an excuse to kill stuff ( "It was OK to kill him, he was Evil!" Uh, isn't killing someone for a philosophical alignment in itself an Evil act? ).

 

In the end, for me personally, I want cool miniatures. Really, that's it. I'm old and adept enough to rewrite fluff and play under any one of about a dozen good rules-sets that accommodate building your own troops.

[rgtriplec 819]

Although data cards and fluff have become the kernel of the thread. I'd like to mention implementation of faction books and the core rules not only because these things have been discussed on the forums that sparked the thread but also because this affects me as well . Originally I thought how the core book contained lists for each faction was great. You buy one book study the factions and choose who you want to be... buy into. I did just that with my second army, Reven. I chose them for two reasons the first was the variety of races. The second was I liked the faction abilities. To me warcry was the dealmaker and I had tactics planned for enrage before I had my models. Being able to take the most inexpensive solo in the game was also an incentive. I bought a couple hundred dollars in figs, I had gotten a little of everything bulls, goblins, ogres, trolls, beastmen, harpies. I wanted an army that represented the Reven across the board. Then I found out that the two reasons I bought the game no longer applied to my in a winnable game. The faction abilities I liked so much had been stripped away from my build some time before I bought them and my bulls with their goblin cav and harpy air support was not a very playable option. Granted the sublists were well developed but they ruined the list that most beginners think is what they will be playing. I've had to dump another $100 in the bulls and it will take another fifty to make them a 1500 company without proxy. I figure even if the 10 packs are about $30 it will cost me about another $200/300 to build a goblin force.

 

I am not opposed to changes in a game system's rules, factions or fluff if needed. But... to change the entire dynamic of a faction and literally break it to form a couple cool sublists isn't to my liking at all. Both new sublists could have been created without ruining grand Reven. Maybe if all the errata was in the same place it would make things easier. The actual errata is in one place at Reapergames but the core data card are in another and another set of data card backs with all models even sub faction models is in another and neither set of cards differentiates itself from the other. Although most if not all of the information needed is available it is scattered between two sites and the forums. Everything needs to be in one place, but more than that unnecessary changes should not be made.

 

In the future I hope that factions are not changed to make sublists. I recently read the thread announcing the Reven change and Reaper even says in the post they made Grand Reven virtually unplayable by creating the sublists.

[wildger 31]

I picked Warlord over Confrontation and WHFB. I had the last two game systems before I came across WL. Warlord attracts me so much that I was able to force myself to spare some time to finish painting a 2000 pt Necropolis army (with spells and equipment except for the bases) while the confrontation models were primed but collecting dust. And I gave away my WHFB starter set. I like Warlord's minis and the rules are simple enough for me to get into the game easily. There is nothing wrong with both and I feel that the game has a lot of potentials. However, comparing to GW, Rackham and Privateer Press, Reaper is extremely poor in marketing and not impressive in their presentation. I think this really hurts the sale. Just my two cents.

[smokingwreckage 9134]

OTOH, Reaper is much, much cheaper than the others too, for comparable models. (And no, comparing a box of injection molded plastic to a single metal is not valid, either- not economically, not in terms of business model, and not in terms of aesthetic.)

 

If there is to be errata it should be a consolidated download with at least a link to the latest version of the cards.