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Tomash

New Warlord "Army Packs"

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You're right Matt. I was thinkin' of the Rag'Narok box set of Dwarves that I got from Rackham, and they were pretty beefy and easy to assemble. I've given up on Rackham for two reasons. 1. I don't like the metal they use as it's very brittle and 2. said metal is difficult to assemble when the parts are small. The initial cool factor of their sculpting is wearing too.

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Reaper and Rackham figures are the same height. And Rackham's are usually thinner.

 

You're right...usually. The dwarves, on the other hand, are huge!

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OK, this is going to be some harsh rant by a very disenchanted all-heart fan of Reaper. Sensitive mates, ye be warned, arr!

Also, excuse me for resurrecting an old topic.

 

The thing is, today I saw these Army Packs introduced into the shop. With 3-figure blisters withdrawn at the same time. And this, basically, sucks. Sucks big time.

 

Buying each type of troop in amounts like 9 or 11 at a time? A playable, tactically interesting army has at least of 3-4 types of troops - which means buying ~30-40 figures for an army to have at least basic variety. Such amounts smells almost Warhammer-ish. By the way, could anyone tell me if he's ever used 9 hospitaliers in an army?

 

3-miniature blisters have been immediatelly withdrawn. That's basically the reason for this rant. I really don't get the arguments justifying such move - I mean, I know them, but they aren't convincing even a little bit. All the other miniature companies I've dealt with (GW, Rackham, BlackTreeDesign, Fenryll...) sell metal troops in 3-figure blisters - suddenly Reaper seems to know better what customers want.

 

9-figure packs were supposed to be cheaper. Were supposed. And reality?

9 Unforgiven army pack costs 40$. A single Unforgiven ("the most popular one") costs 4.50$ - i.e. buying an army pack for 40$ gives an amazing saving of .50$, or 1.25% (if one prefers relative quantities). No comments on this one.

 

If only there were all three types available as single-miniature buy, I'd get it. But they are not, and thus I don't.

 

I've been trying to convince many people here, in Poland (where about 80-90% of miniature market belongs to Games Workshop - and such situation is in many, if not most, countries in Europe), to try Reaper miniatures - and I'm still going to, as Reaper minis are just damn great (and, fortunately, bad business decisions won't kill them), and MSP paints are just the best in the world. But I'm seriously reconsidering collecting and expanding my Warlord armies and using them to promote Warlord in Poland - because I'll feel simply stupid telling people that for a small 15-model game with non-monotoneous army they need to buy over 30 miniatures.

 

Please, guys. Reconsider putting 3-model blisters back into Your offer.

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Well, I am not a Reaper employee, so this is just what I have seen.

 

But, as a retailer myself, the 3-packs are still on Reaper's retailer purchase list. Now, that is not to say that they couldnt withdraw them at any time, but at least for the moment they are still on there.

 

So, at least from that, I gather that the taking of theitems off the shelf is the choice of your store.

 

But, again, I might be wrong on this...

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The main thing that makes me hesitate to get into Warlord is the unipose, one piece miniatures. I came from GW games where the customization was easier and very fun to do, giving one a unique army. These army packs are nice, but the variety or lack there of between troops is a bit...off-putting.

 

As a side note, is all of Rackhams miniatures Prepainted?

 

M.

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The main thing that makes me hesitate to get into Warlord is the unipose, one piece miniatures. I came from GW games where the customization was easier and very fun to do, giving one a unique army. These army packs are nice, but the variety or lack there of between troops is a bit...off-putting.

 

As a side note, is all of Rackhams miniatures Prepainted?

 

M.

 

warlord figs. other than the unique heroes and leaders are not one pose models. each warrior type has at a minimum of three poses. the army pacts will reflect this and will include models of each pose. you are only seeing the single pose because that is the pose that is in the single blister.

 

gw and customization. . .here you have a company that puts out the majority of their figs in multi-piece plastic form and can therefore offer a greater variety of freedom in poses. Reaper, being in the metal miniatures business, doesn't and cost less to boot. although customization with metal is harder it is not impossible, and with the new proxy rules you can now use as many dhl minis as you want to sub in your armies. want different orcs. . .there are plenty to choose from, as well as human knights, dwarves and elves.

 

and who knows, with Reaper now getting into PPM you might end up seeing sprues of unpainted plastics in the future. . . but if they do, i hope they keep prices reasonable like they are now.

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Yeah, it seems a bit much to get 9+ models in a pack. Might be too late to change course at this point.....

 

Maybe 6 packs of grunts would be better. Especially adepts. Sure some people like to jamb a troop full of adepts but I generally like to include some other model types that synergize (is that a word??) with the adept - i.e. support models, warriors to guard archers, etc. My favorite troop (pretty much ever) is Freya with 6 maidens and 3 halberds. So if I were to be buying that troop from scratch, I'd have to buy Freya, 9 maidens and 9 halberds (or whatever the precise numbers are, you get the point). I'd have 3 maidens that I just couldn't use, and luckily I could keep the halberds and use them in another troop. But what if my favorite troop was maidens backed up by piercers? Or any other adept combo. Now I'm pretty much out of luck and will end up putting down more money and having more wasted metal in the box when I'm done making my army.

 

11 adept boxes are too much, as well, pretty much all the time, if you ask me. Only (most) warlords can use that many adepts, and to do so means you can't use any elites, which is one of the reasons a warlord is a good leader.

 

So I say, packs of 6 would be better. If they went with their big army packs and decided to keep their packs of 3 going as well, that'd be great, since they can cover all bases with the large army packs, 3packs, and singles. Everybody's happy.

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I'm really, seriously hoping the good folks in charge of Warlord game development talked to the other good folks in the Packaging Department, or that Mr. Pugh or someone is overseeing them both. If they did [fingers crossed smiley], then I think we'll soon see a better alignment between the game system and packaging. If so, then the packaging changes are just a little early, and it will all make game sense, in time. If not...if the quantities have no correlation to game usage...then yeah, the packaging change could be a really pointless exercise. It would leave us to forget saving $0.50 per 9+ and just buy the fewer singles we need at the regular price.

 

As for me, as usual, I will just have to wait and see.

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I'm really, seriously hoping the good folks in charge of Warlord game development talked to the other good folks in the Packaging Department, or that Mr. Pugh or someone is overseeing them both. If they did [fingers crossed smiley], then I think we'll soon see a better alignment between the game system and packaging. If so, then the packaging changes are just a little early, and it will all make game sense, in time. If not...if the quantities have no correlation to game usage...then yeah, the packaging change could be a really pointless exercise. It would leave us to forget saving $0.50 per 9+ and just buy the fewer singles we need at the regular price.

 

As for me, as usual, I will just have to wait and see.

Yeh , the problem with buying single minis is that you only get one pose . You then have to go to the boneyard or buy the army packs to get alternative poses . Some grunts don't even HAVE alternative poses . :angry:

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Well.. 9 modles is crowd.. 11 models is insanity o_O

Sorry but who will need 11 models at one time? We're changing into Warlord Fantasy Battle - 100++ models and 5k pts. per side?

This is not good :(

I know that you can order as much modles as you wish from Boneyard.. But for people from different countries (continents!!) it's not that good solution.

Maybe in USA when you order sth. from boneyard - you wait couple of days.. In Poland - sometimes you must wait 1-2-3 months till next pack from Reaper. o_O

 

Or maybe the new boxes are supposed tobe ordered by groups of friends - so they would divide one box into 3 people xD

But still.. It sucks... At least a bit.. Bit still sucks ;(

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Actually, for many army builds, I do use more than 11 Models of the same type. It's not all in the same troop, but I'll still use 11 of them, especially with the Grunts. Having 11 of an Adept is not a bad thing if you ever plan on playing something more than 1501 points. If you're playing only 750 - 1000 point games, you're probably better off ordering singles because you're not going to use all those extra models, but if you're ever interested in bumping it up to a 3000 point game, which is an absolute blast, havnig those extra critters isn't a bad thing. And honestly, most of us hoarde our metal anyways, who doesn't have at least a small bin of shame? :lol: Or, if you don't want the extra figures, have a friend that is going to Reaper Con trade in your unwanted Reaper Metal for an equivalent weight from the Boneyard.

 

I was not thrilled with the change to the bigger army packs, but decided to just go ahead and roll with it. In an ideal world, maybe there would be singles, triples, and the uber 9'ers, so you could come up with just about any numerical combination you need. But one thing to realize is that stores do have very limited shelf space. Even if your store only carries the big army packs, any reasonable store should be willing to order you the singles. If not, you might want to consider removing the F from FLGS. Alternate poses can be easily ordered through the boneyard as well. People asked for the big army packs and the singles. Plus, the singles also allow the RPG people to buy a cool model they want to use, without having those extra 2 or 3 critters lying about that were in the triples.

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Tomash, are you saying that your local retailer took all the three-packs off the shelf?

 

Or that his distributor is just saying they can't get them anymore?

 

I agree, the three-packs should continue alongside the singles and 9-packs.

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The upcoming changes will make things even more interesting.

 

On the one hand, many adepts will now become grunts, so having more of them makes sense.

 

On the other hand, the increase in points will likely mean that you need fewer grunts.

 

I'd prefer to have the 1, 3, and 9 packs as well, though I can see how that isn't all that attractive from a distributor and retailer perspective.

 

 

Ron

 

PS: side note to M. Eversberg II (re Rackham pre painted): only the AT-43 line is pre-painted. The Confrontation minis are not.

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Yeh , the problem with buying single minis is that you only get one pose . You then have to go to the boneyard or buy the army packs to get alternative poses . Some grunts don't even HAVE alternative poses . :angry:

Yes, you're right. Sorry I wasn't clear on the source of various singles. I just assumed boneyard, auction, horse-trading the 'extras' or combining purchases with friends. The problem I see with combining purchases is that everyone in the 'pool' would be building the same faction, or mixing about for freelance. If variety is key in model poses, variety in factions would be important, too. I mean, combining purchases among 3 friends would blend everyone into similar factions, nixing variety. I have not seen multiple players at the local game shop all playing the same faction, so I'm not sure how that would really work out. Maybe it's different in your area and you can find, for example, 4 or 5 Necro players going head-to-head on the table, but willing to pool money for models.

 

As for alternate grunt poses, I could be wrong, but somewhere along the line I got the impression that as the game/model line grows, gaps will be addressed with alternates, re-sculpts, etc. I also understood the three packs would be at the discretion of each retailer to trade in or stock until supplies run out, but in general they would no longer be produced. I thought single grunts were the 'popular' sculpt, with alternates in the bulk packs and boneyard. Please correct me if I am wrong. Someone better at thread-o-mancy than I am might be able to find something more accurate than my (probably faulty) recollections.

 

In the meantime, while we're waiting for true Warlord models, aren't there a good number of DHL minis to proxy for those 'missing' grunt poses? Are the 4 to 6 model DHL army packs still available? Legendary Encounters will be legal for proxy, too, but that's no help today. I'm working on a big proxy mix myself, pulling in what few Warlord models I have and filling gaps, getting variety, from DHL singles and army packs I bought for Apocalypse. I'm also using some non-Reaper stuff (bought pre-Apocalypse / Warlord) to round things out for friendly games. Shhh...don't tell anyone. :poke: That's enough to keep me busy painting & playing with a lot of variety until more models are available for my faction(s). Maybe someday I'll have time, money and models to replace the non-Reaper minis for official events.

 

At risk of offsetting my own point just above, I understand completely if mixing proxies from one or more lines does not work for you. I'm a purist, at heart, and I would rather not field a mix of WL, DHL, LE and 'other'. I would definitely prefer to have several complete factions, all perfectly painted, official, with amazing variety in the models. While I'm wishing, I'll throw in a wish for a winning lottery ticket so I can have a great hobby/game room with cinematic-quality terrain, too. But, then again, I'm also realistic enough to know that none of this is happening right now. Mercedes tastes, used Chevy money, you know? So, I guess what I'm really struggling to say is, "Variety is available, if you are willing to use some imagination. If not, wait for it and maybe the variety of poses, models and purchase options will catch up."

 

Outside the USA, you make a good point. It sounds like sort of an all-or-nothing deal, and I don't have a good solution. As you said, combining purchases might work, given the right group of friends. It's worth a shot.

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Are the 4 to 6 model DHL army packs still available?

 

Yes. In fact, the latest Casketworks indicates that a few new ones (or, at least, newly available) will be added to the existing set.

 

Ron

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