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Tomash

New Warlord "Army Packs"

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Fire! Wolf! Doom! Gloom!

 

*deep breath*

 

Ok, look. I get it as well as the next person. A lot of people aren't happy about the 3-pks going away. But let's examine a few things before anyone gives Reaper the cold-shoulder over this.

 

#1) Singles of each soldier model are available. The number of non-WL people that buy WL minis far outnumber the WL players. They don't want 3 minis in a pack. They want 1 inexpensive model. The singles address this need.

 

#2) The other sculpts from the army packs are still available through the Boneyard. Yes, this means you have to order from Reaper to get them. Yes, it is slightly more expensive than getting them as the old 3 packs. But they ARE available. And how many times did you have to buy 2 or 3 of the old 3 packs to get the 4 or 7 minis you wanted under the old packaging system. This is not that much different.

 

#3) Proxy your heart out to get variety. With Reaper's VERY liberal proxy rules, every single model they make (and things that haven't even come to fruition yet, such as the PPPMs) are fair game to be substituted for soldier models.

 

As we've already seen with some of the coming changes, many of the models that had Adept designations before no longer do so, so you can field more than a troop's worth at a time. Higher point battles have also allowed you to field more troops of the same adepts. If I could put 11 shieldmaidens on the board, I would!

 

Breathe, ladies and gentlemen, breathe. Reaper is not trying to kill them game; they are doing what they can to make it more accessible and more affordable than ever before. I'll miss the 3-packs too, mostly for their price-point. But it is a sound business decision, and the last time I checked... Reaper was a business.

 

~v

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No snap decision here. I understand the move. I just like the flexibility. It certainly won't stop me from playing or painting. Instead of buying a pack of figs every week, I'll wait 2 weeks.

 

From a business standpoint, Reaper will probably make a bit more money, as they will save on packaging. If Reaper is really trying to grow the game with this move, I stand behind it 100%. That should be the focus.

 

As per the different grunt poses, I don't think I've seen a Reaper model I didn't love, so it really doesn't make a difference to me.

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Breathe, ladies and gentlemen, breathe. Reaper is not trying to kill them game; they are doing what they can to make it more accessible and more affordable than ever before. I'll miss the 3-packs too, mostly for their price-point. But it is a sound business decision, and the last time I checked... Reaper was a business.

The single packs are most likely a great business decision. However, I'm not so sure about the army packs. If the army pack isn't offering either more variants or a significant discount over the 3-packs (at least 10% over the singles), then I think the army packs are a net loss for customers compared with the 3-packs.

 

Rich

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My point exactly. Reaper is a business. And doing away with the 3-packs and going with the big boxes and single packs is bad for business.

 

The assumption behind the move, I think, is that only Warlord players buy Warlord figures. This is totally false. Now, this is only my own experience talking, but out of the six people I know who buy Warlord minis, not one of us plays the game. We all buy them for conversions and use in other games (typically RPGs). And of the three local shops only one had or knew of a game of Warlord that was going, and it's been closed for nearly two years now.

 

It may make sense for the players of the game, to package the grunts in big box, where they can get a bunch of the same kind. The game evidently features scenarios that require a lot of the exact same thing.

 

But those of us who were spending sometimes hundreds a month on $13 3-packs now have only two options: buy a bunch of identical singles at $5 to $6 a-piece (no way!) or buy too many of only one type for $40. I'm sorry, but my experience tells me that we are the majority of the customer base. We who don't play. This may be a good move for the (admittedly perceived by me) minority who do play it, but it simultaneously alienates what seems to me to be the majority of the customers for this line.

 

Maybe Reaper has some means of tracking how many units actually sell off the shelves as compared to how many are ending up in games. I doubt it, but okay. All I have to go on are conversations with my local hobby shop managers and owners. None of us knows of a local game, so who's buying all the Warlord? Me and my RPG buddies.

 

We can disagree on this. Maybe where you guys are all anybody plays is Warlord. Reaper is a great company with some good ideas and some bad ideas. To me, the PPMs are a really, really good idea. The big boxes and no more 3-packs are a really, really bad idea.

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I don't like to have to go into Daddy mode here too often but, once again, I have to speak up on this thread. For the longest time, Reaper heard the non-warlord players ask over and over for Warlord soldier models to ba available as singles.

 

Reaper gave the customer what they asked for.

 

Warlord players constantly complained about their online retailers and FLGS only stocking 1 of each of the soldier packs, thus taking a fair amount of time for special order and restock so they could fill out their army rosters and asked for larger packs.

 

Reaper gave the customer what they asked for.

 

People have always maintained that just because a model was dropped from its distribution list, they still remain available.

 

Reaper gave the customer what they asked for.

 

They know they cannot make everyone happy all the time, so they try and listen to the majority. Most companies would just tell you: "Like it or leave it". Reaper is bending over backwards to keep as many people happy as possible without having to maintain literally thousands of SKUs in inventory on hand. Yes it may be a little inconvienant for those out there who only want 1 model of each of the 3 poses, or a bit of a crunch for the shoestring budget gamer. The warlord line is geared toward Warlord players and the players asked for largeer packs. The painters asked for singles and got exactly that. I fail to see where Reaper has done anyone wrong by making the changes they have to warlord pack size. Take a look at how fast tin prices are rising and you will see that the 9-11 packs are a good deal. If the 3 packs were to stick around, we would most likely see a 15-20% increse in cost (seeing as how the cost of the metal haaas gone up 28% in the last year and Reapers prices haven't).

 

Reaper is not trying to cause undo hardship to its loyal fans. Quite the opposite! I personally applaude a company that can make business moves that not only make the majority happy but looks after my pocketbook as well. There is always more to a picture than what you see. A customer will accept a size change far more readily thanthey will a cost inccrease. Kudos to the kids in Denton for being smart businessmen and still giving the people what they ask for.

 

The bottom line is we all want the best possible minis at the best possible price...

 

....and Reaper gave the customer what they asked for.

 

 

Dr. J

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It's my understanding that every other large set of Warlord miniatures is an outstanding deal in terms of price per model. I'd expect the new big packs of soldiers to be at least a pretty good deal. The three packs were convenient for me, but not really a good deal for Warlord players, who will want to pay as little as possible per soldier for fairly large groups of soldiers, nor for painters, who usually want a lower cost for just one model, or DnD players, who for the most part want either a fairly large group of humanoid monsters, or single characters.

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Anyone else think the 11 packs are a wierd size (eg. Dwarf Warriors, Justicars, and Dwarf Maidens? among others), especially since in most cases this size seems to be pushing their price well beyond the $40 mark (as one would expect, more minis cost more money).

 

I know you'd have a huge army if you did so, but it doesn't make buying a pack of each type of Dwarf Unit very feasible in one go (Well over several hundred dollars). Of course people will now come on and say, well just buy one pack and them several blisters...sorry this doesn't work for me when there is only a single sculpt available in blister.

 

Also, looks like the 10-packs of newer overlords still retain only their 2 sculpts, which is very disappointing, I would have thought a third sculpt would have been added for variety as that is what these large packs are supposed to be about to at least some degree (at least in my understanding).

 

The price per mini of these packs isn't unreasonable, but I would rather have seen all the packs made 9-packs (rather than the 6-11 we see)

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It's been mentioned that if a customer doesn't want to buy an army pack for whatever reason, they can order the figures they want from Reaper online. I have a couple of problems with this.

 

First, one of the supposed draws of the army packs is the savings per figure over the 3-packs. Forcing customers who don't want the army packs to cobble their units together by buying singles online wipes out that savings. Second, and most important to me, is that this approach completely bypasses the local hobby shop. I personally don't know of anyone who actually plays Warlord, but I've seen a lot of people at the local shops buying various Warlord singles and 3-packs on impulse. I usually will approach them and ask if they play, hoping that I might find an opponent, but so far no luck. They usually are just picking up a couple figs for an RPG or just to paint. I'm guessing that they wouldn't be so quick to pick up a $40 army pack on impulse, if the shop will even take the risk of ordering a bunch of army packs that may collect dust for months or years. At my local shops, even the box sets and dragons have been sitting on the shelves for as long as I've been a customer. But the smaller blisters always seem to be moving. I realize that your mileage may vary and there must be some areas with core groups of Warlord players, but it seems there is a much larger customer base that just picks up a few models here and there for various reasons other than playing Warlord, and for those customers the army packs don't make sense.

 

I think Bruunwald said it better than I have, but I wanted to throw in my $0.02 and a vote for the return of the smaller packs. I am a customer, and I'm hoping that Reaper really will give the customer what they ask for.

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Someone was talking about savings in the Army Packs, so I thought I would pick out a few and point out how much we are or aren't saving on each army pack. I picked these at random, but picked things with different # of models and costs.

 

 

06130 : Crimson Knights (9) $39.99 / ppf(price per fig) $4.44

14359 Necropolis Crimson Knight $4.99

Savings: 11%

 

06117 : Dwarf Warriors (11) $47.49 / ppf $4.32

14353 Dwarf Warrior $4.99

Savings: 13%

 

06159 : Reptus Warriors (6) $31.79 / ppf $5.29

14343 Sunan, Reptus Warrior $6.99

Savings: 24%

 

06157 : Reptus Clutchlings (11) $39.99 / ppf $3.64

14362 Reptus Clutchling $4.49

Savings: 19%

 

06164 : Bull Orc Fighters (9) 39.99 / ppf $4.45

14347 Bull Orc Warrior $6.99

Savings: 37%

 

06133 : Skeletal Warriors (11) 36.99 / ppf $3.36

14354 Skeletal Warrior $4.49

Savings: 25%

 

06168 : Harpies (8) $39.99 / ppf $5.00

14216 Harpy $6.99

Savings: 28%

 

06140 : Khamsin Dervishes (9) $39.99 / ppf $4.44*

14344 Jumoke, Khamsin Dervish Warrior $4.49

Savings: 1%

 

 

*About half of the current army packs fall into this 9 for 39.99 bracket, and their single blisters costing 4.49. I'm not going to sift through all of them, but it should be noted that this price is the majority.

 

In all, some of those savings make my jaw drop. I don't like having 3 extra models either, but if it's darn cheap and the only way to get alt sculpts then I guess Reaper wins this round. The gap from 1% to 37% is kind of strange though.

 

As a DM, I think this packaging strategy will fit in nicely with their future PPPM line. Warlord for my heroes, characters, important NPCs and PPPMs for my xp trash or random encounters.

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Well, the proof is in the pudding isn't it? Thats a real nice savings on some of those packs. Thanks for doing the brain work.

 

Yeah, the savings over the singly-packed figures is quite large. But the savings over the 3-packs is much smaller. Most of the 3-packs ran around $14, for an average figure cost of $4.66. That would put the savings per figure at around 5%. That's not too amazing, especially when I have to buy such a large group of figures with each purchase.

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Well, the proof is in the pudding isn't it? Thats a real nice savings on some of those packs. Thanks for doing the brain work.

 

Yeah, the savings over the singly-packed figures is quite large. But the savings over the 3-packs is much smaller. Most of the 3-packs ran around $14, for an average figure cost of $4.66. That would put the savings per figure at around 5%. That's not too amazing, especially when I have to buy such a large group of figures with each purchase.

I haven't checked the 3 packs myself, I'm just going by what you're saying, but if the 3-Packs ppf are $4.66 then the actual savings are larger than before.

 

Old 3Pack(ppf): $4.66

New Single: $4.49

Army Pack(ppf): $4.44

 

I might have missed something, i'll take my other post and add the 3 packs and we'll see what happens.

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Yeah, the savings over the singly-packed figures is quite large. But the savings over the 3-packs is much smaller. Most of the 3-packs ran around $14, for an average figure cost of $4.66. That would put the savings per figure at around 5%. That's not too amazing, especially when I have to buy such a large group of figures with each purchase.

It's entirely possible that while the savings don't seem like much over the old three packs, it may be that the three packs would have seen a price increase soon. Some times it is better customer relations for a company to mask a price increase with a change in packaging than it is to flat out raise prices. Pay attention at your grocery store, and you'll see this happen a lot - same price, smaller containter. In Reapers case, they planned on the packaging change for a while - knowing that a price increase might be forthcoming, it's better business sense to build the price increase into the packaging change than it is to make the packaging change then a few months later raise the price.

 

I don't know if that is the case, but that's the way I would do it. After all, it's always easier to lower your price later - not only do customers never complain when you lower your price, but in an era of rising prices, it's good PR when you can do so.

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