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Tomash

New Warlord "Army Packs"

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Edit: Ignore most of this rant and see below for what the actual issue was.

 

Ok, I'm off the 'Army Packs are OK' band wagon. I got to my FLGS last night with hopes to round out my razig faction and what I found on his shelf I didn't like at all.

 

Razig's Skeletal harpooners come 15 to a pack...

Razig's Zombie Recruits come 12 to a pack...

 

Now something might be wrong, but I held these blisters in my hand and was able to kind of count what was inside, and I have no doubts that it was 15 Harpooners. The blister was also marked, by Reaper I assume, as Skeletal Harpooners(15). The retail price and contents are higher than what reaper has listed in their store...

http://www.reapermini.com/store/customer/p...=117&page=6

http://www.reapermini.com/store/customer/p...=117&page=6

 

Forcing me to buy 9, when I will use 6 or 7 is ok, I can swollow that. I refuse to buy 15 models when I only want 6. Same goes for all the packs over 11. This is an extreme that I don't want to see pushed.

 

 

There were other blisters that were different, such as Reptus Warriors coming 9 to a pack, but I'm only going to comment on the Razig ones, since I was going to buy them.

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SE: actually, when you factor in AVERAGE exchange rate and 15% GST (and presumably are willing to buy from Military Simulations) we can get Reaper products at about the right price, and I really haven't seen much in the way of cheaper models provided you're talking about metals. Reptus are expensive, but frankly Reptus are huge and many of them are five parts or more.

The problem with Milsims is that you still have to pay for postage and they often don't have the products in stock and can take a while to reorder . I've found it cheaper to go through Reaper direct than deal with them or my 2 FLGS's but that doesn't mean I don't support them as I buy plenty of stuff from them but it is rediculous the prices they charge . <_<

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I don't know if there's an inexpensive solution for our friends in Australia or Europe. I know I pay more for product coming from Europe, and I buy a lot. It's just the nature of the hobby. Unless you have production molds and casting machines set up in different places, there's always shipping to consider. Maybe if Reaper goes bigger we'll see an Australian division!

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I'll be brutally honest. I was just looking at discussions else-forum about people getting started in minis games, and one of the biggest barriers in any game is the initial "I have to buy this big box of lead" investment.

 

Originally, you could go out, grab a Starter box, a three-pack of Archers, a Sergeant, and maybe a Solo or a melee/rogue hero, and you were set to go. You might want to expand and diversify later, but that was all you really needed.

 

Now, if you want to do something like that, you have to buy the singles, hit the boneyard, or buy an 11-pack. And the singles are demonstrably more expensive.

 

Here's a clue: not everyone wants to, or is even capable of, buying online. You've priced yourselves out of the impulse-purchase range by making it impossible for people to go into a store and say "Oh! They have X, I need a couple extra of that! Zing!". Saying "you can order it online" is actually a big turnoff for some people, they see it as a major hassle if it isn't in the store, on the shelf, where they can see it, pay for it, and have it to start painting and playing with immediately.

 

Summary: Army packs? Good. Singles available? Good. 3-packs gone? BAD.

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I don't know if there's an inexpensive solution for our friends in Australia or Europe. I know I pay more for product coming from Europe, and I buy a lot. It's just the nature of the hobby. Unless you have production molds and casting machines set up in different places, there's always shipping to consider. Maybe if Reaper goes bigger we'll see an Australian division!

Well from some insider knowledge the prices we are paying are because the importers are taking a fair sized mark up . <_< I could save 25% to 30% if I only bought directly from Reaper .

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Well, in the best of all possible worlds, you could have your models any way you wanted them. Considering the competition and shelf space at brick and mortar stores, it's an awful lot to have everything at once. Around here, it's Warmachine all over the stores, and NO real Warlord presence, except in a small area. No organized play has taken off. I imagine these moves are to get the game running in a bigger way than it is now.

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As someone who just recently bought into Warlord, I'd like to point out that most people aren't aware that the current rules favor mixed units of grunts. This wasn't something I figured out until after I searched out and bought full units of 12 figures for Skeletal Warriors and Skeletal Archers, which required visits to three different FLGS, because each store only had one 4-pack of each.

 

Most other mini's games have units that are all one type. So for the novice player with no info on Warlord, they aren't even going notice the lack of the three pack. I know I would have preferred to pick up my units in a single big blister - instead I went searching for the 4 packs to make my units.

 

This is not to say that I wouldn't prefer to have the 3-4 packs available myself. But with the realignment of the game coming, this may not be such an issue when it comes to getting new people into the game.

 

And when you look at the start up cost for Warlord's main competition - Warhammer - the cost benefits of Warlord are still obvious:

 

WFB costs $50 to get into IF you want the basic box set with plastic Orcs and Dwarves. If you want any other army, or don't want plastics, you're looking at $50 for the rule book, PLUS your miniatures - even if you go with all plastics you're looking at $100 easy just to play a 1000 pt game. And given that most people prefer 1500 to 2000pt WFB battles, you're that much more in the hole.

 

Warlord, on the other hand, means a $25.00 rule book, a $40 army pack and a Sergeant or captain or two - you're in the game at well under $100 and with metal figures of the army type you want to boot.

 

The main problem with that is the main rule book reflects rules and lists that are out of date, and you have to go online to get the updates. An up-to-date printing of the main rule book, even if it raised the price up to $29.95 or even $34.95 would help that - I know a lot of people when standing in their FLGS store would rather buy the game with the $25-35 Hardcover rule book than the $50 hardcover rule book. And if a new printing of the rulebook included a nice intro section with the official proxy rules, you could even get people to buy into the system using the DHL army packs.

 

Hmm - now that I think about it, maybe a good strategy for Reaper would be to add a sticker to the DHL army packs that say something like "Usable with Warlord".

 

 

EDIT: fixed typos that annoyed me.

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I've been a vocal proponent of them "statting out" DHL minis; we'll see this in the new journals, but YOU'RE onto something there with the stickers on the DHL figs. Nice idea.

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Summary: Army packs? Good. Singles available? Good. 3-packs gone? BAD.

That's exactly my opinion.

I'm mostly a painter (besides a beginning Warlord player) and still don't see the big benefit of singles.

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Edit: Ignore some of this rant, it was fueled by a problem detailed below.

 

Summary: Army packs? Good. Singles available? Good. 3-packs gone? BAD.

That's exactly my opinion.

I'm mostly a painter (besides a beginning Warlord player) and still don't see the big benefit of singles.

I don't think we need that many options....

 

Just flat out don't need 10+ of a certain model. It's silly of reaper to force that down our throats.

The Army Packs need to be 3-9. 3-5 for Cavalry or large base sized models, 5-8 for large standard based models, 9 for everything else under the sun.

 

This should put the price tags around $30-$40 for all of the models.

 

I'll eat that pewter happily. Making me buy 12 figures is making me gag.

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Can we all just agree that there are clearly a lot of people unhappy with the change from 3-4 packs to the larger Army packs with 9-11 models in them. While there are merits to all sides of the arguement, this debate really isn't going anywhere. I think the folks that are unhappy with the change have expressed their displeasure quite clearly, and vocally. It's a fairly safe bet folks at HQ have either read this thread, or had the information passed on to them.

 

The simple fact is that the triple packs are no longer available (unless you come across old stock), and have been replaced by the larger army packs. That horse is already out of the barn.

 

Folks have said they are unhappy with this. It's really now up to the folks at HQ to decide what they want to do about it, if anything.

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Kristof's definately on to something with the stickers idea.

 

I can't say I was entirely keen on the vanishment of the three-pack to be replaced by the ten-pack either. Mind you, I already HAVE my army, but I can empathize with the person just starting the game who wants to get a few of this and a few of that without spending all his money.

 

WHICH is why I am happy there are still the DHA ARMY PACKS! Almost any type you need to play WL is represented in army packs now.

 

I bet those DHA Army Packs would fly off the shelves if they had a sticker on that said "We play Warlord too!"

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I went back to my FLGS last night and sorted out the problem with their blisters. Long story short ACD has the wrong pricing/title for the models, and that's what my store used to create the label they place over the original.

 

We took down the ones that have a quantity difference and plan to go back and relabel the others as time allows.

 

No idea what ACD is going to do for the store since they charged them the completely wrong price for the packs. It also gets even more confusing because the store offers 15% off of the models.

 

 

 

Knowing that what's in Reaper's Store is correct is MUCH more comforting. I still don't like the idea of having some packs greater than 9. It seems silly. I don't really care what Reaper's optimal price point is per package, blisters of 10 or 11, flat out give me too many models.

If there are two sculpts make it a pack of 8. If there are 3 sculpts, make it a pack of 9. :)

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