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Outkast Samurai

LOS and Cover question

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I went over the rules a few times trying to make sure I didn't miss it but I couldn't find the rule on how many inches into the woods a model can see. I don't want to mix it up with legacy stufff floating around in my head so does anyone know where the rule on this is?

 

 

Also the cover penalty (-1/light -2/heavy) is that per inch or just a one time penalty.

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You didn't miss anything. Basically it's left up to players to come to an agreement on how to work cover woods. Next time I play I think I'm going to try 2" for Heavy Woods (approx 26 feet actual distance) and 4" (~ 53') for Light Woods, if LOS passes completely through a wooded area LOS is blocked regardless of width.

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That doesn't make a lot of sense to me Sarge.

 

I can fire 4 inches INTO light woods with only a cover penalty, but I can't fire THROUGH 2 inches of light woods to the other side because it blocks LOS. :blink:

 

I'd treat the width of the woods the same, irregardless of firing into, or through, and provide the same penalty.

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You guys are completely missing the new LOS and Cover rules. They don't work anything like the CAV 1 rules.

 

If /anything/ blocks the 1/4" LOS Corridor you do not have LOS and may not perform a Ranged Attack. The corridor must start at the attacking Model's center, but can be traced to any part of the target Model's base (for ground level) or any part of the target Model's upper area (for eye level).

 

Once you've determined if you have valid LOS, you simply look at the target Model from the attacking Model's point of view. If at least 25% of the target is obscured, it gets a cover bonus based on the type of cover. How many inches of cover there is doesn't effect it at all. The penalty is b/c you're shooting around the cover, not through it.

 

For example, I've placed my Rhino at the corner of a building. FreeFall moves his Butcher to the opposite corner of the same wall and shoots at me. From his point of view, the wall goes like this | and he can only see the left half of my Rhino. Its big enough though that he can draw LOS from his cockpit to my left torso area, so he has LOS and can attack. The building blocks half of my model (half > 25%) so I get Heavy Cover from the building and FF's attacks suffer a -2 penalty.

 

In the above example, it doesn't matter whether that building's wall is 3" long or 30". He has LOS and I have cover. Its as simple as that.

 

Another good example is a tree. Say my Rhino is standing behind a tree with a tall trunk. FreeFall's Butcher can't trace LOS from his cockpit to any part of my torso b/c the tree's branches block LOS. However the branches don't cover anything below my Rhino's "waist" and FreeFall can trace LOS from his base center to my base. He's got LOS and I get -1 soft cover from the top of the tree.

 

What's important now is determining what blocks LOS and what does not.

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So you're saying that we have to have seperate trees for our forests now? Other wise if a mini is more than a 1/4" into the woods then LOS is blocked :wacko:

 

 

Somehow that just doesn't make any sense.

 

 

From what Chrome says it sounds like it isn't a matter of having separate trees, it's a matter of defining the nature of the woods. Are the trees tall enough to cover the top of a CAV? Is the undergrowth dense enough to block LOS? A woods that is both would block LOS after 1/4 inch. But you might have smaller trees so the top of a CAV isn't covered. Or you might have tall trees but little undergrowth so you can see those legs a ways in. (Time for the ol' bark colored camo).

 

dannibal

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So you're saying that we have to have seperate trees for our forests now?

CAV 2's rules are designed for miniature terrain only, so no, woods templates are not going to cut it now.

 

Other wise if a mini is more than a 1/4" into the woods then LOS is blocked

The 1/4" is not a length, it is the width of the LOS Corridor. If you can trace a straight line, 1/4" thick through a stand of trees to your target - either on the ground or head to head - then you have Line of Sight and can perform a ranged attack with a slight penalty. I have a bunch of n-scale trees that will work great for this. What I plan on doing is stating that the tree trunk blocks LOS. If the LOS Corridor can be drawn on the ground around the tree trunk, great! But if there's so many trunks that the corridor can't be drawn, well then LOS is blocked, which basically means that the trees are too thick to fire through.

 

I use those small clicky $1 tape measures you can find in the fabric section at Wal-Mart or Hobby Lobby. The tape is slightly wider than 1/4" (3/8ths actually) but it makes for a decent LOS corridor and determines range at the same time.

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I totally get where the rule is coming from but in the battle of aesthetics vs. playability having a modular battlefield (ie templates) sure makes it easier to have a number of different terrain setups. If I had all the reaper boards I'd play the way the rules read but with mine I have to go with the -1 per inch. Those trees get expensive.

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That doesn't make a lot of sense to me Sarge.

 

I can fire 4 inches INTO light woods with only a cover penalty, but I can't fire THROUGH 2 inches of light woods to the other side because it blocks LOS. :blink:

 

I'd treat the width of the woods the same, irregardless of firing into, or through, and provide the same penalty.

 

Chrome's, "You're supposed to use seperate trees now" argument aside, if you don't, it is important to know that it is a common wargaming convention that you can't trace LoS through two wood's edges. Of course, this is primarily for human sighting conditions where going from sunlit, through shadowed, and back into sunlit is all but impossible for our eyes. Still, it is a convention that my group is used to so one I will be adopting for templated forests. Beyond that, I think I'll go for a -1/-2 per inch to a maximum of -"X" at which point LoS is considered blocked.

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I don't like the way woods are treated. Reason being if a Wolverine is behind a tree, no matter how much of the tank hangs out on either side of the trunk as long as the trunk is between my centerpoint and his centerpoint (or the 1/4" LOS corridor) I can't hit it. So for all the technology at his disposal, my wizzo can't aim a little to the left or right? The LOS and cover rules work fine for buildings, walls, hills and anything more than about 1/2" wide, not so well for thin vertical obstructions like trees.

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no matter how much of the tank hangs out on either side of the trunk as long as the trunk is between my centerpoint and his centerpoint (or the 1/4" LOS corridor) I can't hit it
The corridor must start at the attacking Model's center, but can be traced to any part of the target Model's base (for ground level) or any part of the target Model's upper area (for eye level).

 

Based on Chrome's answer on that one, you would be able to hit the tank, but the tank would not be able to hit you. As in, I could probably do a LOS corridor to a part sticking out from behind the tree, but because the tank's center point is behind the trunk, it would not be able to create a corridor coming back.

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