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Divide up big units?


Warwick
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One of my lists has 2 large units, one at 12 models, one at 10. In the recent redesign I'm considering splitting those units into one or two more, spread out the same number of models. I see pros and cons for both. What size units do you ladies and gents usually run? This is a 1501 army, too, so I have a lot of points to play with.

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Anywhere from 4 to 10 usually. More leaders=more initiative cards and smaller units are easier to maneuver.

 

How are smaller units easier to maneuver? You can spread out a big unit just as easily as a small one. However, more leaders equaling more init cards is definitely a good thing. Warwick and I played last week where I had 3 cards versus his 5, and it definitely made a world of difference! I think next time my 4-unit-8-init-card army is coming out to play. :devil:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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It is very hard to answer these open ended questions...

 

Give me details... scenarios... probable terrain.. probable matchup... etc.. then I can give an opinion... otherwise its the same old washed out answer of... "it depends" or "there are lots of combinations that could work"

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I was seeking a general answer to full units vs bot-so-full units. Since I am building an all-comers 1501 army list that will be my travel/tournament army, it needs to have some flex in it.

Speaking in general, I find huge units too bulky. Too many models getting in each others way, blocking LOS, etc. But I also find bare minimum units so underpowered that they hardly pack a punch. I've decided units with around 4-5 Soldiers are plenty.

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I learned early on that small units are pathetically worthless versus high DV warmaster models... i.e. Ymrilix and others of his general mold. With only small units, you're forced to go at him piecemeal and he gets loads of defensive strikes, but with one larger unit you can effectively swarm him, eat the hits he gives you, but at least be satisfied that you took him down or did big damage to him.

 

Versus enemy infantry the "large troop" bonus is significantly less... since by and large you don't "swarm" infantry models. So if you're doing an "all commer's army" then I'd suggest at least one large-ish troop for dealing with high DV solos and elites, and if you feel like it some smaller troops so you get some initiative cards. I also like to have some solos in there to mix it up, some of them have wonderful DV's which make it difficult for the enemy to take down if they don't have their own large troops. Keeps them honest :)

 

I usually run a full Freya troop of 10, a warrior troop of 9 (though I recently aquired more halberds so that'll change), and a piercer troop of 7 or so. So I guess all large troops... I don't win too often though :D

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As Stub said, "it depends". For the most part I tend to run medium to small sized units, with plenty of solos for the initiative cards.

 

jd has a point about bringing down big guys with warmaster, but this can be solved by swarming him after he has gone and not attacking with the first small unit and then doing and attack with the next small unit. you'll still get all the benefits of support, but with fewer attacks but a swarm is a swarm, as they say.

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When I play a typical Dwarf army, I'll have Freya's unit maxed out, but most of the other units will have no more than 5 grunts in it. Then I'll have multiple Thorvalds running around. Is 5 grunts considered large? I never thought so. I considered it medium. :devil:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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It really depends, but more often than not, I tend to run closer to max Troop size. The loss of an Initiative Card has not ever truly crippled me in a game. I'd much rather have 10 models acting in concert than having a group of 5 and then another group of five trying to take something down. Sure you might still win the numbers game, but you're doubling your risk of losses, and against larger Models, that can turn real ugly.

 

My typical construction is a troop of 10-12. Another group of 6-10. Another group of 4-8. Some solos and or small troops of 4-5 depending on what I am trying to do.

 

Example:

Kakurgh + Lunk + 5 L.O. Warriors + 5 L.O. Spear

Kharg + 5 B.O. Archers + 3 B.O. Warriors

Braug

Ogg + 3 Goblin Beastriders

Kiakara + Gaaguk + 4 Zerkers + 3 B.O. Hunters

 

That's 1274, with sufficient points left for some spells or equipment, and I can tweak the model count to make it work for me a little better if needed.

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Yeah, I find myself agreeing with the blanket "it depends" answer when it comes to unit size. However, I think there are some definite trends in how I put together troops that produces some predictable results. For example, if I am building a flanking unit of warriors with a higher Mov and generally lower DV value, the unit tends to run 5-6 total models, including an inexpensive sergeant. On the other hand, my "command" unit will often be close to maximum size, taking advantage of mixing ranged attacks, magic, and a decent melee force. A typical Reptus command unit might look something like:

 

Chai-Uut

Ssudai w/spells

Reptus Warriors x6

Reptus Archers x3

 

I like having the varied abilities combined into one unit to support one another. Of course, this isn't always practical.

 

Frankly, however, I find that the difference between a small troop (4-5 models total) a medium troop (6-8 models) and a large troop (9+ models) for me is often decided by exactly where the points start to fall when I'm getting close to the point value of the game. Does taking two soldiers make sense, or can I add a troll solo instead? Will re-allocating a couple models from a small troop allow me to eliminate a sergeant and add a totem to the army? Often, these choices only result in the difference of a single initiative card, so the overall impact on the army really isn't that great.

 

~v

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I prefer my mobby units to be big units. By mobby I mean my cheap troops like the skeleton warriors, that way I can make up for their poor MA with swarming over my opponent. I usually put Sir Athak in command as well as I find him to be a great sergeant overall (I've not experimented with the crypt legion list much yet).

 

Other units I tend to keep small, such as my crimson knights and breakers and stuff, though I've started supporting them with a couple of skeletal archers, that way I can soften up my opponent before I charge. On the other hand, my main unit in my elven force is full strength with as many archers as I can fit in. I'm planning on switching to that new archer of doom warlord at some point as well. But I keep my elven warrior units small however.

 

I've also been playing with merc units as well, and those tend to be quite large for me. Also, I've found Artemis to be an absolute bargain as well. I tend to run between 4-6 spearmen and the same number of crossbowmen (I use them as a small merc detachment for my necropolis and elves).

 

It's all personal preference I think and finding something that suits your force and the way you play.

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