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Stubbdog

indirect fire question

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If the result of a drift takes the final target point off board, but if it were on board would still be in range to cover a target in its AOE, do you play it as a hit or a miss off table?

 

That is, I have a AOE/4 IF shot. Your model is standing 1 inch from the edge of the board. I fire, and drift. The drift has it drift 3 inches in the direction off board. So, you are inside of the AOE/4, but the end target point is offboard...

 

Do I get to roll for damage or not?

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I'm no expert but in all the game systems I play with friends , off board means off board even if the AOE would have hit something . We play it the off board shot misses . :poke:

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I can understand the logic of saying that if it's off the board it is lost, but I think that is more to keep guys from moving off the board to save a unit/mini and then wanting to bring them back once the threat is gone. As long as the unit on the board was obviously in the AoE, I would have given you the damage roll.

 

Castlebuilder

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I've always played it as a missed shot. No real reason, but it probably comes from using templates rather than an AoE measurement. If the drift was less than the AoE I'd give you the damage roll. Just gets difficult if there was another model right next to the original target as there's no table to place a marker on for the centerpoint to measure from.

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So long as the shot would hit the target I'd go for a damage roll. It keeps people from hugging the table edge for protection from IA's. Unless of course you determine that you are playing on a plateau.

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Using Outkast Samurai's logic, I'd agree. Measure the Target Point off the table and check for AOE. Otherwise everyone will start running down the sides of tables. :rolleyes:

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I'd go the opposite way and say if it's off the table it's off the table. If you ever play me and have anything land off the table don't even bother asking if you can roll damage because there's no way I would ever ask you if I could.

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I play it like Spartan6 stated. off the table is off the table.

 

Otherwise you are making an exception for one thing but restricting everything else. Using that logic I should be able to drive off the table by an inch or two to get around something or get a better firing position etc.......

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I play it like Spartan6 stated. off the table is off the table.

 

Otherwise you are making an exception for one thing but restricting everything else. Using that logic I should be able to drive off the table by an inch or two to get around something or get a better firing position etc.......

 

 

Exactly. "off the table" means "off the table". If your artillery can hit me from "off the table" why can't I fire my artillery back at yours??? It just opens a can of worms that isn't worth it.

 

Oh, and if I play someone that runs along the table edge for the purpose of trying to avoid indirect fire.. I'll never play you again AND make sure EVERYONE knows you're one of those kinds of players. It's one thing to be near the table edge to avoid terrain or obstacles but if you're using the table edge as "cover" it will be pretty obvious.

 

It's like the "sandbag" tactic at tourneys. In a tournament with timed rounds and damage inflicted counts toward your score, I've seen players rush forward on the first turn and try and deal a big amount of damage and then stall and hide for the rest of the time limit in order to try and prevent their opponent from inflicting damage. Those are the people that need dealt with out behind the building. It's unsportsmanlike and cowardly.

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So spartan i had to pipe up when i saw your post here. Somebody not engaging you so that they cant lose is one thing. But to use strategy to beat you early on for points then use cover to avoid a bad turn of dice rolling is quite another. There is a fine line between strategy and cowardice. And its all in the perception of your opponent basically. Personally i chose to play ritterlich because i felt they had one of the better options to run up and blow you up and live to brag about it. That is just my play style. So i guess you have been burned in tourney's before by that run and hide strategy eh?

 

When i used to play magic the gathering(a card game that got wicked butt expensive so i quit) we had a solution to somebody who tried to win by not playing. We called it a cheese deck. Basically all the really quick damage spells you could come up with and nothing else was the deck. It was very illegal to play with say 30 lightning bolts in a 45 card deck but hey it got its point across. To anybody who knows that game i'm sure you need no explanation there. To everybody else i've had players stand up wanting to fight me from using things like that. A quiet conversation outside usually solves most of that nicely hehe. For those less inclined to use that kind of learning curve i suggest using a piss load of strikes. Let em sit and hide while you pound away at em from orbit. When they come out to try and salvage the game you eat em up with Your units hiding under cover.

 

I always enjoyed letting somebody have just rewards for trying not to play and waste my time so i can sympathise with ya there spartan.

 

Later

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But to use strategy to beat you early on for points then use cover to avoid a bad turn of dice rolling is quite another. There is a fine line between strategy and cowardice. And its all in the perception of your opponent basically.

 

So i guess you have been burned in tourney's before by that run and hide strategy eh?

 

 

I agree, there's a huge difference between trying to find a little cover and minimize your losses and just plain hiding. It's usually pretty obvious when that's going on. ::):

 

 

No, I haven't personally been burned that way but I've seen it done and thought it was a pretty crappy thing to do. The last time I saw it done however it didn't work because the employer of the tactic misread or misunderstood some rule and wound up getting hammered anyway. :lol:

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I play it like Spartan6 stated. off the table is off the table.

 

Otherwise you are making an exception for one thing but restricting everything else. Using that logic I should be able to drive off the table by an inch or two to get around something or get a better firing position etc.......

 

 

Exactly. "off the table" means "off the table". If your artillery can hit me from "off the table" why can't I fire my artillery back at yours??? It just opens a can of worms that isn't worth it.

 

Oh, and if I play someone that runs along the table edge for the purpose of trying to avoid indirect fire.. I'll never play you again AND make sure EVERYONE knows you're one of those kinds of players. It's one thing to be near the table edge to avoid terrain or obstacles but if you're using the table edge as "cover" it will be pretty obvious.

 

It's like the "sandbag" tactic at tourneys. In a tournament with timed rounds and damage inflicted counts toward your score, I've seen players rush forward on the first turn and try and deal a big amount of damage and then stall and hide for the rest of the time limit in order to try and prevent their opponent from inflicting damage. Those are the people that need dealt with out behind the building. It's unsportsmanlike and cowardly.

 

I find the application of the word "cowardly" to a game an interesting choice and let me save you (Spartan) the trouble, I AM THAT KIND OF PLAYER. First, of course I'll hug the table edge under this ruling. The table edge is an "effect" to keep us in close enough proximity to each other to fight but that's all you'll get for guarantees from me there. I have no problem with your "sandbagging" tactic either and, if hugging a table edge gets me further benefits, count on my doing that as well. A good rules set will keep arbitrary rulings ("delay of game, hugging the table's edge") down to a minimum and, to this end, allowing the IA to hit it's target just seems like a "no brainer".

 

Wargames (like war itself) are about victory conditions that don't necessarily coincide with your plan of standing toe-to-toe and duking it out until somebody retreats or somebody dies. And before I'd allow anybody's whining and/or threats to dictate the way I play against them, I'd back away from the table and allow him to activate my sections as well as his own.

 

In summary, I say up front, "teach me the rules and I'll show you how the game is played."

 

Edit: I don't believe in edits except to correct spelling and/or grammatical errors so I did not actually edit this. In hindsight though, I realized that it probably came off much harsher than was warrented or intended and I wanted to apologize for that. :blush:

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There is a very easy solution to people that use the table edge to hide or attempt to use the drift rule to a benefit. Limit the amount of cover provided. Either take turns deploying cover or make sure you use the deployment rule in the book to decide who gets what side of the table to start from. That will usually make more people honest about how they are gonna play. And then even if you get somebody who wants to try to use the side of the table for cover just run a cav or tank section down their throats.

 

Something else to consider here is people want to win when they play the game and will take a varying degree of tactics to accomplish that task. Just roll with it as long as its within the rules of the game or house rules if that is not specific enough. I used to get all fired up when i was younger about getting outplayed by somebody be it cards board games strategy whatever. Well i'm older now and less likely to get ticked off but more likely to not let it happen twice. Dont get locked into a certain style of play and you will get your opponent guessing on what to take next. In my oppinion force construction will give you wins or losses most of the time. After that its the fickle nature of dice and the initiative deck.

 

Later

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I play it like Spartan6 stated. off the table is off the table.

 

Otherwise you are making an exception for one thing but restricting everything else. Using that logic I should be able to drive off the table by an inch or two to get around something or get a better firing position etc.......

 

 

Exactly. "off the table" means "off the table". If your artillery can hit me from "off the table" why can't I fire my artillery back at yours??? It just opens a can of worms that isn't worth it.

 

Oh, and if I play someone that runs along the table edge for the purpose of trying to avoid indirect fire.. I'll never play you again AND make sure EVERYONE knows you're one of those kinds of players. It's one thing to be near the table edge to avoid terrain or obstacles but if you're using the table edge as "cover" it will be pretty obvious.

 

It's like the "sandbag" tactic at tourneys. In a tournament with timed rounds and damage inflicted counts toward your score, I've seen players rush forward on the first turn and try and deal a big amount of damage and then stall and hide for the rest of the time limit in order to try and prevent their opponent from inflicting damage. Those are the people that need dealt with out behind the building. It's unsportsmanlike and cowardly.

 

I find the application of the word "cowardly" to a game an interesting choice and let me save you (Spartan) the trouble, I AM THAT KIND OF PLAYER. First, of course I'll hug the table edge under this ruling. The table edge is an "effect" to keep us in close enough proximity to each other to fight but that's all you'll get for guarantees from me there. I have no problem with your "sandbagging" tactic either and, if hugging a table edge gets me further benefits, count on my doing that as well. A good rules set will keep arbitrary rulings ("delay of game, hugging the table's edge") down to a minimum and, to this end, allowing the IA to hit it's target just seems like a "no brainer".

 

Wargames (like war itself) are about victory conditions that don't necessarily coincide with your plan of standing toe-to-toe and duking it out until somebody retreats or somebody dies. And before I'd allow anybody's whining and/or threats to dictate the way I play against them, I'd back away from the table and allow him to activate my sections as well as his own.

 

In summary, I say up front, "teach me the rules and I'll show you how the game is played."

 

Edit: I don't believe in edits except to correct spelling and/or grammatical errors so I did not actually edit this. In hindsight though, I realized that it probably came off much harsher than was warrented or intended and I wanted to apologize for that. :blush:

 

 

 

No apology necessary, but thank you for the explanantion. ::):

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There is a very easy solution to people that use the table edge to hide or attempt to use the drift rule to a benefit. Limit the amount of cover provided. Either take turns deploying cover or make sure you use the deployment rule in the book to decide who gets what side of the table to start from. That will usually make more people honest about how they are gonna play. And then even if you get somebody who wants to try to use the side of the table for cover just run a cav or tank section down their throats.

 

Later

 

 

 

Makes table edges likely places for minefields too. ::):

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