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mooseyjoe

Player's feelings on the upcoming changes to warlord

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Ok, I'm turning in my official reaper fanboy card. More changes to warlord? Massive datacard overhaul? No real faction books? It's already hard to get people to play this game without explaining that this demo doesn't actually reflect what the game will be like a few months from now. With these new changes I'll have to get 4 or 5 books a year to keep up to date. It isn't too hard to convince somebody to fork over the cash for a faction book that deals with their favorite army, but a 4-times-a-year massive book? "Well I'm glad to see that you've chosen our game. You'll need this rulebook, and these 6 updates." No thank you.

 

Reaper, I'm glad you made a good game, but it is getting hard for me to believe that it will stay that way. Here's hoping you prove me wrong.

 

 

 

 

@ Mods: feel free to cut and paste this little tantrum into a thread with any others of it's kind.

 

 

 

Edit: for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, read it here

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Hey... if the new stuff tanks, keep playing it the old way! I'll reserve judgement until I see the new stuff - a month isn't that long to wait. Might be a good idea to print off the current data cards, that way you have them :P

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Ok, I know how you feel with this coming not that far from the 1.2 revisions which tweeked some things to put them in line with the cost formula so that everyone was on an even keel. We've been asking Reaper for a full updated book. I can see this as a very large first step towards that incorporating many of the suggestions and addressing many of the complaints that we the players have made on the forums, in messages, and in e-mails. It appears that Reaper, instead of just dropping a new version in our laps, has decided to take a look at what has worked and what hasn't and get it out to a series of playtesters to find out how viable the changes are. The playtesters are going to try and break this or see how broken it is. I can't see Reaper going through the trouble of trying to use what we have voiced concerns about just to force a game system on us that is horribly altered. I can say a few things (and if I have said too much Mods please delete this). The game mechanics haven't changed. The basic way the game we know and love is still there. The game you are demoing is still, in essence, right there waiting to be played. There are no figures that are becoming obsolete, in fact there are some that have gone from useless to usefull. We are going to be getting an update to the game, yes this is true. Does this make the rulebook obsolete? No. Does it make it unweildy, in a way it does because not everything is in one nice book. This isn't all that much of a change as we currently have the rule book, faction books, updated 1.2 cards, and errata. With the potential changes it will consolidate much of what we have and give us the chance to truly have a shot at a reprintable rulebook. This is of course just speculation on my part but if Reaper can get the few glitches we are fussing about fixed wouldn't that be a great time to get it all together in one book? The journals, when they come out, will help keep the game alive and growing with a concise place to look for any new SAs, rules clarification, senarios, and such. Let's give this a chance to fly or crash on its own merits. Remember that Reaper does listen to what we have to say so as they unveil this make sure you look at it carefully and give it a test on the table so that Warlord will be the game that you want to be playing.

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But it also means 3 years from now you need to play - the rulebook, latest FAQ, every Rage chronicles that has been issued, your faction book, ideally your opponents faction book, and every one of the all faction book. Oh and some figures, scenery, dice, data cards. tapes etc. Which is a lot to carry about for a game. It reminds me of 40K when I used to play and I needed to carry a few kilos of books and white dwarfs to know I had all the rules I might need to prove at a game.

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I can understand everyones initial pucker factor at the thought of Warlord being changed. The game already rocks and therefore, why should we change it. I would offer this counter argument: We constantly bring up ideas and questions on this forum. Shouldn't we expect that Warlord should evolve and improve based upon our input? Personally, I'm willing to trust the Reaper Peeps and wait to see what comes down the pike.

 

(Steps off the fan-boy soapbox.....)

 

Castlebuilder

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I can understand everyones initial pucker factor at the thought of Warlord being changed. The game already rocks and therefore, why should we change it. I would offer this counter argument: We constantly bring up ideas and questions on this forum. Shouldn't we expect that Warlord should evolve and improve based upon our input? Personally, I'm willing to trust the Reaper Peeps and wait to see what comes down the pike.

 

(Steps off the fan-boy soapbox.....)

 

Castlebuilder

 

*steps on the soapb0x as CB steps off*

 

seconded. Look at what we have done for suggestions and what has been implemented so far in the game.

 

We've talked about changes in LOS, new models, and SAs. We have seen Eawod go from musings in the elf tactics thread to an actual mini (pretty darn close to how we thought it would be). I like a company that listens to its consumers and doesn't charge me twice as much for an elite/hero fig.

 

We're not all going to like all of the changes. some we'll love, others we'll hate, but we'll talk about them and with enough input and actual game usage they may get reversed, tweaked, or who knows. Reaper is not trying to make your army obsolete (unlike other companies out there), they are trying to make it better, balanced, and enjoyable.

 

I'm a FB, I love the game. . .but there are things about it that I dislike (to say it nicely). Ask rcrosby, strominator, qwyksilter, or ravenwolf they'll tell you, but it doesn't keep me from playing the game. Voice your opinion, but have game experience to back it up and suggestions to make it better.

 

*steps off the soapbox*

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All I can say guys and gals is , hold your RAGE! :poke:

What I've seen so far , I like abour 95% and IMHO I feel the changes will make the game better just gives us a short while to kick the tyres .

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I will second what Brushmaster just said. Be patient folks and please, do not worry. We are playtesting some of the new stuff and you guys will find out shortly how it goes. The guys at Reaper are really trying their best.

 

@ SOLDcorn: From how I read EE's post about the RAGE chronicles, you will not need every single chronicle book, just the most recent one to be able to have the latest, most up to date information. I think it would basically be, have the rulebook and the latest chronicles and you are set for the most part..at least that's how I read the post.

 

Just remember guys, be patient for a little while and see what happens...from what I have seen so far, it looks good.

 

@Mods: If I have said too much feel free to delete this post.

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I think you misunderstood what they stated, .

 

Part of the reason FOR these changes is because there are too many books. Now they will have 1 book that touches everything every few months, and yearly ALL of these changes will be compiled into a free file.

 

This is MUCH better than what we have now.

 

Which is:

Faction books that get over written by errata, faq, and OTHER factions books that don't belong to your factions.

Spells/equipment all over the freaking place.

Models that aren't standardized and that there are 3 different but very similar versions of.

 

 

Calm down the GRRRRR and change your topic title.

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[iMHO] Ok, I tried to get an ok to talk about this, and I will still be very succinct in what I say, but MODS - if you must, please delete this thread post-haste with my humblest apologise (I really did try to ask for permission, and please forgive bad spelling - it's late right now).

 

Yesterday (wed) I got to read through a lot of the changes and play a quick game with the new data cards - it was EXCELLENT!!!! I won't go into detail, but the Reaper Peeps have really worked hard on making a good game even better, and having read and played with it, I feel that they have succeeded with flying colors. I won't go into details as far as changes for two reasons 1) the possibility of a faulty memory and 2) I want to be able to keep playing without a harsh beating with a wet noodle :blush:.

 

Reaper is doing exactly what it should be doing - making a good game great. Are there a lot of changes that go into that? Yes, but they are excellent changes that will make Warlord much more fun to play and much more tactically flexible. There are many more possibilities that play out much better than in the past.

 

As far as how the changes are to be carried out - again, I think it is an excellent choice. That hammery-war game is on like it's what, 854thedition? With each new edition, of course you must by new army books, the new models they put out, the monthly magazine with all the errata and new troops/rules, and the yearly bound edition of the errated-errata. And by the time you actually get that all done and paid for, there is a new edition out and the process starts all over again.

 

How is Reaper handling this? Instead of milking for money, they are giving the rules away for FREE!!! RAGE Chronicles are an excellent way to get people involved in the game and I think it is also very indicitive of Reaper's commitment to putting the player first.

 

From my POV, Reaper want to produce the best quality products they can, both in terms of minis (which they are already doing) and in terms of game systems. I already enjoyed Warlord, and now I can truely say that I think Warlord is exactly where it needs to be right now --> a good game that they made great! Some of the changes made me scratch my head until I saw it on a model, some made me drop my jaw (literally), but they were all well thought out, organized, fun, and all aimed at making Warlord the best game on the market -

 

In my humble opinion, Reaper has succeeded 100%

 

Please don't bother emailing or PMing to ask for specifics - I won't say anything to anyone. Again, if any mods feel that I have said too much, please don't hesitate to delete this post and send me a strongly worded PM about this and I won't let it happen again. I just wanted to share my perspective about the positive changes that are being made.

 

Thank you [/iMHO]

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Ok, I'm turning in my official reaper fanboy card. More changes to warlord? Massive datacard overhaul? No real faction books? It's already hard to get people to play this game without explaining that this demo doesn't actually reflect what the game will be like a few months from now. With these new changes I'll have to get 4 or 5 books a year to keep up to date. It isn't too hard to convince somebody to fork over the cash for a faction book that deals with their favorite army, but a 4-times-a-year massive book? "Well I'm glad to see that you've chosen our game. You'll need this rulebook, and these 6 updates." No thank you.

 

Reaper, I'm glad you made a good game, but it is getting hard for me to believe that it will stay that way. Here's hoping you prove me wrong.

 

 

 

 

@ Mods: feel free to cut and paste this little tantrum into a thread with any others of it's kind.

 

 

 

Edit: for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, read it here

 

I'll have to agree 100%! But I also agree we should give them the benifit that they know what the are doing! I just personally feel its better to have those Reaper peeps hear our consern's before they make huge changes! First of all I have to say because I enjoy playing the game so much I've thought about trying to join the Black Lightning team! I even have a local store now that want's me to run a few demo's for them of Warlord and Yu-gi-oh which is a game I'm a tournment organizer of for UpperDeck! And I know I'm a very blunt and long winded talker so I will probably be pushing the envelop by saying what I truly feel! Again this is only My Opinion! And I want to say it before the game comes out and can't be modified to satisfy the masses. If you agree or disagree with me I encourge you to speak up and let Reaper hear your ideals before any real drastic changes are made!! ANY real changes can kill a game or yes even make a game stronger! But Look what happen to poke'mon. It was one of the fasting growing card games out and its been around for a while, but they changed the format around supposedly just to make the game easier, the game is "essentially" (<=their words) the same but now a days you can't "give", poke'mon cards away! The loyal fans didn't like the change. Now alot of them seem to be playing Yu-gi-oh and W.O.W. and other games. I know they are different games but I'm just trying to give examples. Again this is only My Opinion!

 

I love the game of Warlord like it is! I think Warlord was very well thought out and it has plenty of options for just about any army list! Yes there are a few little matters I wouldn't mind seeing changed a little But by No means at all does it need big changes Specially in point cost maybe a few minor point cost changing but nothing major!! I love the fact that since this is a game of fictional army's you can bring many different army's with lots of troop members to the field, from the same list, in the same battle! You have the option to bring 20 guys that are really tuff or 50 guys who are meant to swarm. I like the option to bring 10 different types of guys in a smaller force size if you choose too or you can run 2 army's of 10 to 15 of your favorite types of troop's. I enjoy the fact that the guys don't last forever, They are only flesh and blood after all! Yes I think their stats decrease a little too fast after just 1 hit but I'm hoping with this new change that will fix their 2nd (for grunts) and 3rd and 4th tracks (on warlords and solos)! Honestly I don't mind buying a new character or two every now and then But I WON'T be buying a book every few months to be kept 100% updated and I seriously doubt I would even buy yet another new book every year, unless it was very informative with new scenairo's and new spells and equipments while not changing anything from the past books!! I'm not trying to buy fluff. If you want fluff read the fan fiction section (I personally like gamers opinions on how the story lines can go). But I've already put conservatively over $250.00 dollars into this game for just 1 army. Which I don't mind because I liked the game so much!! But that's with winning box set's and almost 1/3 of my army at tourney's and I was fortunate enough to win a few tourneys! I told ya I like to have options and ya need the minis to have the options! So I could see 1 army costing at least $400.00 to $500.00 for the bigger army's and with the paints an all at it's current stage. Making people buy a new book every few months to stay completely up to date will turn off alot of people Specially new people! Or people with families living check to check! I was thinking about starting a new army of Necropolis just so I can have even more options of play. A lot of options are the attraction of this game to me and most of the guys I talk with. Now I don't know exactly what's happening to the game but common sense says if you rasie the points alot but the gameplay is the same you will be losing A lot of options! I want to play the warlord I've come to know and love, not a different game! The guys at the shop have been trying to get me to play CAV for the past two years I've been playing warlord! No offence to Reaper but I don't like that game at all! From what I've seen it doesn't have nearly the options Warolrd has. You can only field about 10 to 15 average mini's in a average game because there points are so high! and I personally would hate that! CAV players seem to be ok with that and thats because they are playing with tanks and heavy machines which have lots of tracks and you don't bring alot of those units to those types of battles. They aren't playing with Army's of Men who shouldn't have alot of tracks and you bring a lot of them to every battle!! I mean this game is Warlord not CAV. Now Again I know they are totally different games and your using machines not people but I think you understand why I personally don't like that game.

 

I have to agree with you mooseyjoe because if I start to run this game and 6 months later its a totally new game all those guys who I get into it and like it the way it is now are going to be upset with not only the game but with me! Yes I hate to jump the gun the changes may not be too bad when they actually come out but I guess I am a pessimist specially with the way Ed's thread makes it sound. I would just hate to have to stop playing the game all together! And as for what others have said here so far, I hear ya 100% as well, Give them a chance! But if they change it up too drastically like I understand they are going to, it will make the 1st rule book useless and they will need to buy at least the first chronicals and the first krugers journal just to have the currently updated stats at that time, well until they deside to change something else. 1 little issue to someone who doesn't play a certain army maybe huge to others that do play that army. I personally just went out and bought $75.00 worth of Necropolis stuff last week plus the faction book. Now if even 1/2 the stuff in that book is now non-exsistant or even altered quite a bit, thats a $15.00 book wasted! And I went with crypt legion so if the spectral minions are being hacked like the thread says thats $75.00 worth of mini's (my whole theme so far) wasted. Then what do I do, change to vampires only to have them changed with the next Krugers book. I like the idea of a little change but I even feel a bit ripped of that I never got a dwarven faction book and now never truly will. I like the fact of having one book focused on my favorite faction! And the second army I thought about playing may not be what I truly want to play, when the spells and equipment and even the characters are change so drastically. I'm sorry to be the pessimist here but I think Reaper would want a broad range of opinions before changes are made!

 

Well ok all, let the pessimist hear it! Again remember I was just giving my opinion of what a drastic change could envolve!!

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I'm not the least bit thrilled. But in fairness I'm taking a wait and see approach. But in all honesty, if changed of the v1.2 set happen a 3rd time I'm gone for sure.

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Right on brother!! I agree completely. Yes, there are changes coming. That happens in every non-boardgame available. CCG's have banned and restricted lists plus errata. Minis have erratas and rules changes and rules updates. Theres no way around it, especially when a game is new. Look at Magic. Rules changed here and ther for about 7 years. Then 6th Edition comes out and completely changes the way 90% of the game works. People still play it, cause it rocks and the updated rules made it even better.

 

Thats what I see happening with Warlord. If they feel they need to balance models and are willing to do so for FREE, then I don't see why we should complain about it. All you have to do is print out what you need for your faction and you're done. You won't be wasting hundreds of dollars on updated rules, army books, and obsolete figures. I dig the Warhammer 40K universe, but some of there policies regarding the above mentioned issues drives me insane.

 

Speaking of rules, I think the Warlord rules allow these changes better than any other system. I believe its inherent to the flexibility of the ruleset that will probably never be huge changes to the core rules. They are complex enough to hold the game together, but flexible enough to allow it to change and grow.

 

My point is.....If they can make the game better by simply fixing data cards and providing the materials for free, then Warlord will be as beautiful as the Reaper minis its played with.

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