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mooseyjoe

Player's feelings on the upcoming changes to warlord

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I'll have to agree 100%!

 

...snip...

 

Well ok all, let the pessimist hear it! Again remember I was just giving my opinion of what a drastic change could envolve!!

 

I think everyone who is ranting is missing the point.

 

First. Go back into the rules discussion forum and find ALL of the complaint threads. Read the ones from people you know are experienced players, look at the time they have been members on these boards, and judge from the comments they make. Make a small list of all the issues brought up that alot of people agree on. Keep that list near by for when everything goes public. You find me something that they didn't attempt to fix and I'll buy you a beer.

 

Second. Right now, in THIS game, you NEED to buy EVERY faction book to stay COMPLETELY up to date with the game. So the only thing that looks to be changing with the K-Books, is that they will now have MORE in them for everyone, instead of a little bit for everyone. How is this not good? It's still an optional purchase? From their public post you can still see they are going to focus on several factions per book.

 

Third. Did you guys read Ed's post? Chronicles will be made available FOR FREE!! No company does that! This is freaking awesome, it is a FREE yearly compiliation of all the changes they made to the game!!! You should be jumping up and down right now!!

 

Probably most important:

Fourth, and if this is over stepping my boundries as a play tester edit this post or PM me to edit it. I hated the 1.2 changes. That quick fix put a band aid on broken game mechanics and called it a day. It took models out of the roll they had since the beginning of the game, and adjusted things in strange fashions.

With these changes models have been properly aligned to what their role used to be, or should have always been. These changes fix problems that Warlord had from expanding so rapidly without proper direction.

Most importantly, it removes the band aids and fixes the game the way it Deserves to be fixed. If you want a company that won't admit their faults when scheming up a game, there are dozens out there.

 

 

Lastly, I'm no Reaper fanboy. I'll rip into this company as well as the next, but first they have to give me a reason too.

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My friends and opponents are competitive gamers. We go and meet at GenCon and Origins to play in the National Championships for Warmachine, Confrontation and others. We've played in and won trophies in Grand Tournaments for Warhammer and so on. I have a fair amount of influence with them when I suggest as new game. They all looked at Warlord and thought it looked cute, but was a "beer and cookies" game. These revisions will change that perception.

 

The great thing aobut the datacards is that they are not written in stone. If something is bad, it can be fixed. Rather than being angry about change, we could all be happy to be involved in the growth of the game. The changes will make most everyonoe happy and will attract more attention to the game giving all of us more opponents and giving our game more legitimacy.

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I have to agree with you.

 

Thanks you saved me the time of a typing long post.

 

All in a day's work my good man. At least I made 1 person happy. Today's score.... 1 Person, 1 Fish, and 1 Hampster. And its only 10:47!

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One thing people have to understand about these rule changes. . .the rules really aren't changing.

 

Trying to be as vague as possible. . .the core rulebook is still a needed piece of equipment. The sequence of play hasn't changed. You pick a point value, put your initiative cards into the deck, deploy as normal (spy when necessary/available), and the game works like it did before. . .just better.

 

like seeker said, every company changes their game errata, discontinued, obsolete . . .Reaper is up front about it, letting people who play the game know about it in advance and letting them have a say through the message boards.

 

Be patient.

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One thing people have to understand about these rule changes. . .the rules really aren't changing.

 

Trying to be as vague as possible. . .the core rulebook is still a needed piece of equipment. The sequence of play hasn't changed. You pick a point value, put your initiative cards into the deck, deploy as normal (spy when necessary/available), and the game works like it did before. . .just better.

 

like seeker said, every company changes their game errata, discontinued, obsolete . . .Reaper is up front about it, letting people who play the game know about it in advance and letting them have a say through the message boards.

 

Be patient.

 

 

Thank you for clarifying - the RAGE system is still intact as the base - the SAs, data cards, and equipment specific to Warlord were altered. And then Reaper is going to be giving away the SAs, data cards, and equipment as FREE DOWNLOADS!!! However, I for one will buy the K-Journals (when I can afford them) for several reasons, and mostly because I want to support Reaper.

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So basically, its really just point values and some special abilities that are changing. I'm sure this will be for the better. Every game has some cards/figures/characters that are a little unbalanced. Reaper's trying to fix that to make the environment wide open, which I applaud. CCG players call this the metagame. Generally a few cards dictate that either you will use them, or use something to stop them. This leads to a lack of diversity in decks. Reaper is looking to avoid this situation in Warlord. Lets say for example that one Crusader character is overpowered. Everyone needs to play Crusaders, or something tailored to stop them. By just fixing that character, we can keep a wide open playing field.

 

Check out the Warlord 2007 update (Stickied above). That answers pretty much everyone's questions. Good job guys!!

 

And sorry for the double post.

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Just a quick side-step... what is the attachement to point cost of models? If Reaper were to change the point cost of grunts to a million points, and adjust everything from there, what exactly would be the problem? Models will gain and/or lose abilities, points will be adjusted, and the game will go on. I hardly consider myself a Reaper Fanboy, but I'm willing to see what they have in store before shouting "Doom! Gloom!" Give it a chance...

 

~v

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I think thats the wrong attitude bro. This change isn't costing you any more money. All its doing is fixing some things that are broken. If you like the game, this will only make it better.

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Hey folks, thanks for keeping the comments civil. It's much appreciated. Change can be scary and people have a right to be concerned about the "big change," especially for those folks just hearing about it and not yet able to see the changes. It's unknown and you've invested a lot of time and money into the game. So long as people can keep things civil and avoid the dogpiling on people who disagree with your opinion, it's not so bad. The really great thing I've found from my time here, and being involved in Warlord over the years... They actually do tend to listen to our feedback (well most of it - sometimes they just tell me I'm plain crazy - or you do - Shak, I still want flying winged monkey demons for the Witch Queen ::P:) I'm glad to see that this has not degenerated into a "I hate this"/"You stink for hating this"/"You stink for hating my hating you rabid fan boy" fest of ugliness and hate.

 

I'd strongly encourage folks to hold off on giving up on the game though until you've had a chance to see all the changes and had a chance to kick the tires yourself. I think you'll probably find most of your concerns are unfounded. At least I hope you do. Shakhak made a great point earlier. Go back and check in the history a lot of the problems we've all brought up over the past year or two in Rules Discussion. Check out the changes when they are available. Compare. Smile.

 

Emmel just posted up a number of answers to some folks initial questions about some of these changes, including a few sample Data Cards.

 

I'd heartily recommend checking them out. There are 3 sample Data Cards up too.

 

One thing I just want to point out because you may have missed it because of the change in points and extra tracks and MA and MAV...

 

Templar Knights are Grunts again!

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As always, let's keep this toy soldier stuff in perspective. We debate rules changes about pushing metal and plastic soldiers on a green mat in a fantasy setting. Many of our returning wounded vets are having to deal with metal and plastic prosthetic limbs. 'Puts things in context, dunnit?

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I'm with Mike on this; keep an open mind, go read EE's post for some quick and easy answers, and give the new stuff a fair shake when it becomes available. It is easy for those of us entrenched in the game to wail about changes when they happen, cuz anything different take us away from what is known and familiar (read: comfortable). But Reaper really is trying to improve this game and give it the best chance to succeed in a very competitive wargame market. With better balance, and the soon-to-be-available PPPMs available as proxies, Warlord's popularity should only grow. Give it a chance and show it some love. :wub:

 

EDIT: BTW, has anyone noticed that those of us who have had a chance to get a sneak peek at the new info have all this positive (if rather vague) stuff to say about it? Coincidence? I think not. :B):

 

~v

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I'd add also that if it's a regular group of people you play with, and you don't like the rules, make up a house rule. Works for D&D. We play with the three books and that's it- the rest we make up ourselves.

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I'm not the least bit thrilled. But in fairness I'm taking a wait and see approach. But in all honesty, if changed of the v1.2 set happen a 3rd time I'm gone for sure.

CAUTION: Don't post while sleepy. Wait for the caffiene to kick in.

 

What I was trying to say is...

 

I'm not the least bit thrilled about having all of my cards and books turned into a pile of dust collectors or at best, stuff to keep around for posterity to impress newbies by being able to say, "back when we started playing the game...". At this point they are money down the drain in my mind.

 

The large card change last fall ruffled my feathers a bit. This one has me downright upset. I don't like having to relearn the game every 6-9 months have my armys/stat sheets wasted. Furthermore, how long have the new rules/stats been in the works? Surely they weren't started before October since the cards were tweaked that summer and there wouldn't have been any reason to upset the masses if they were going to be gutted again later. So I can't see <5 months being enough time to "have been thoroughly plotted, analyzed and play tested". It took 2+ years for CAV 2 and now you can do Warlord in 3-4 months? :blink: Seems to me we have the potential for yet another change in 6 months to fix the new issues that will introduced. And at this point I will say if a 3rd mass stat change rewrites things again I'm out no matter how good the game is or how much the changes improve things. Sorry. Screw the ReaperCon deadline, make absolutely sure you have the cards/stats as well balanced and accurate as possible even if we have to wait till next year. If they aren't 98% right, even giving free annual updates to stats won't float my boat.

 

Now... That said, I love the game and have too much invested in the minis to just up and quit without giving it the changes a fair chance. The game is fun, simple to learn and has SUPERB minis. Aside from the occassional quibble the rules are simple and work well. So I guess at this point all I have left to say is get busy fixing stuff and write faster so I can see the new stuff SOON TM.

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