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Voladilk

Beta Thoughts

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Maybe the only thing that needs to change is that it is a free action verses an invoke. That in itself alleviates a bunch of the problem, cause then it could be done immediately after combat has ended and not have to wait til the next activation.

 

Why wait until the next activation. Beat the fella down with your grunts, then waltz up with your leader and play "Let's make a deal".

 

Castlebuilder

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So, it was not very hard for an enemy to simpy target those 1-2 models and make sure to get rid of them first and therefore negate my ability to use the FACTION special ability.

 

Right on the money brother!! You negate an entire faction ability just by targeting a few models. Also, the enemy model makes the Dis check. Why do you need a leader there at all? The previous way made more sense and was more intuitive.

 

Anthony

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With the higher DV's most often you are going to have to use the leaders to take down the bigger guys which, due to neededing the invoke action, is leaving the enemy open for healing, movement, or attacks. I agree that Mercy in its previous incarnation was unbalanced, in fact I displayed just how bad it could get at Origins, but this might be swinging it a bit too far in the other direction. I agree with Stubb that making a free action would help bring it back towards center.

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Remember that there are alot fewer models on the board now. So taking one is a bigger deal than it used to be. Give that mercy a few games before everyone jumps on the band wagon.

 

Alot of factions have abilities where specific models activate them. Vampire feeding. The crypt sub legion and their casters healing ability. Bull Orcs and war cry. Razig and his ressurection.

 

The exception is all the other faction get soemthing in addition to their main ability... Maybe there is something in the works for that.

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Under its latest incarnation , I have found "Conversion" a waste of time . Even against most grunts its a 50/50 option and againts elites and Overlords forget it . It's simpler to kill the model than let it stay around . As for "Healing Graces" , I certainly wouldn't heal an enemy when there's only a 50/50 chance or less of coversion . The risk out weigh the benefits . <_<

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Right on the money brother!! You negate an entire faction ability just by targeting a few models. Also, the enemy model makes the Dis check. Why do you need a leader there at all? The previous way made more sense and was more intuitive.

 

Anthony

In the closed Beta my group discovered that the dice off between the Crusader leader and the victim was really hard for the victim to win. Once the Crusader player realized that a standard would give him a second chance, it really shot down the opposed discipline roll concept. By making it a simple discipline check for the victim, it took away the Crusaders overwhelming advantage. Now, with the victim being allowed to make re-rolls for having a standard, more playtesting will show if the new concept works or not.

 

Castlebuilder

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Going back to the original question on beta thoughts...

 

I love the fact that the game is much more vicious now. I love the fact that we went from rolling once and hitting 20% of the time, to rolling 2-5 times and hitting 30-50% of the time. Even if in the end things are dying at the same rate or maybe even faster. Even if its my own guys getting hit. I just love watching a lot of dice bouncing along at once.

 

I love that the flyer has been fixed as far as I can tell. And that burrowers, again from what I can tell, are gonna see table time (even if I currently dont own any). I might have to add playing a faction with burrow just cause i thinik its that cool.

 

I dont like that you can cast a spell at a Cleric and they really cant do anything about it. But, I love some of those mage spells.

 

I am definitely going to be playing some freelance here and there as well as faction play, cause there are just too many cool models out there to use. (which reminds me, are there any restrictions for RCon as far as freelance armies go?)

 

I also love the fact that I can (and have already done so) stare at the lists of datacards for hours and still not decide which combination of models i want to take cause for the most part they are all worth taking.

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I also love the fact that I can (and have already done so) stare at the lists of datacards for hours and still not decide which combination of models i want to take cause for the most part they are all worth taking.

 

Ditto. I still can't figure out Reaper did it, but like folks were saying before the release of the Beta, it really does seem like EVERY model is worth taking now and that practically any combination can have a chance at working. I haven't been this excited about something in quite some time. ::):

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I love that the flyer has been fixed as far as I can tell. And that burrowers, again from what I can tell, are gonna see table time (even if I currently dont own any). I might have to add playing a faction with burrow just cause i thinik its that cool.

Except for the fact that there is a small loophole that allow you to use such troops to screen ground troops from ground attacks . By putting flyers/burrowers slightly in front of your ground troops , no one may have a model that finishes its move under over over another model and therefore it is screened . <_<

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Right on the money brother!! You negate an entire faction ability just by targeting a few models. Also, the enemy model makes the Dis check. Why do you need a leader there at all? The previous way made more sense and was more intuitive.

 

Anthony

In the closed Beta my group discovered that the dice off between the Crusader leader and the victim was really hard for the victim to win. Once the Crusader player realized that a standard would give him a second chance, it really shot down the opposed discipline roll concept. By making it a simple discipline check for the victim, it took away the Crusaders overwhelming advantage. Now, with the victim being allowed to make re-rolls for having a standard, more playtesting will show if the new concept works or not.

 

Castlebuilder

 

IMHO, if Mercy is going to stay a faction ability it should be hard for an enemy model to win. The way it is written now to me it is more like a model SA than a faction ability. Mercy is already limited because it will not work on the Undead and Berserker SA. If it was a play balance issue why not just tweak Mercy a little. On the opposed roll let's say, an enemy model gets +2 Dis if half or more of his troop remains, +1 Dis if less than half his troop remains and +0 if he is the last man standing. Also, switch the standard back to the +1 Dis instead of a re-roll if necessary.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Anthony

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It seems to me there will be a lot more book keeping during a game. Where once you have a few models with multiple damage tracks now every model has multiple damage tracks. Not a complaint as I have yet to play using the new data cards but an observation.

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I love that the flyer has been fixed as far as I can tell. And that burrowers, again from what I can tell, are gonna see table time (even if I currently dont own any). I might have to add playing a faction with burrow just cause i thinik its that cool.

Except for the fact that there is a small loophole that allow you to use such troops to screen ground troops from ground attacks . By putting flyers/burrowers slightly in front of your ground troops , no one may have a model that finishes its move under or over another model and therefore it is screened . <_<

 

While that is technically true, I can't believe that was the intent of that rule. If I have several Burrowers sitting out in front, effectively screening my remaining grunts, but my opponent wants to charge, so long as he is within range, I could care less. They are supposed to be Burrowed (or Flying) and thus don't block LOS. We've just been sorta working around that loophole. We noticed it too, but decided to try and "fix" it. <_<

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Ok , here's my gripe about the way mercy works now . Being a slow night at work I've sat down and worked out all the DIS on the last track for all models and from a total 272 (excluding Crusader) , 191 have a DIS of 4 or more on the last damage track . This means the Crusaders have a 50% or less chance of converting 70% of the models in the game . Add to that the 17% that are Undead and therefore unconvertable , that's some 87% of all non Crusader models I consider not worth Converting . Only 13% of models IMHO are viable to Convert and most you don't want to unless you think Converting Goblins is a good idea . (No offence to the Goblins) :rock: If you are of the oppinion that a 50/50 chance is a good bet and won't bite you back when you don't succeed , well then 47% of all models are convertable . <_<

I feel the faction's ability has been totally nerfed . :angry: Why bother , oh and forgot to calculate in "Fear the Whip" , which will make Overlord models even harder with a + 2 to DIS with a reduced command radius .

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It seems to me there will be a lot more book keeping during a game. Where once you have a few models with multiple damage tracks now every model has multiple damage tracks. Not a complaint as I have yet to play using the new data cards but an observation.

IME, it isn't a nightmare level of bookkeeping. Sure there can be more of a challenge in keeping it straight, but it doesn't detract from the improvement I feel this change brings. Again, just IMO, YMMV.

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