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Voladilk

Beta Thoughts

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Addressing this specifically, until now the most recent and legal version of mercy took A Column And A Half to explain correctly. I think, personally, it was a LOT more complicated before

 

I guess for me its not a question of complexity, its a question of useability. Until the recent cut in half of the points cost per model, in my playtesting, I could only fit 1-2 leaders in my builds unless I was really trying hard. So, it was not very hard for an enemy to simpy target those 1-2 models and make sure to get rid of them first and therefore negate my ability to use the FACTION special ability. That and having it require an invoke action means that the model has to have an action left to use it. Which most of the time it doesnt because it used its two actions in charging and attacking in the first place. Then you have to rely on the target model still being there when your next activation comes up:

 

 

Ok why not just mercy them instead of converting them??? Mercy and Conversion are still different abilities are they not??? just no combat takes place when a conversion is tried

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.........That and having it require an invoke action means that the model has to have an action left to use it. Which most of the time it doesnt because it used its two actions in charging and attacking in the first place.

 

But if the leader attacked, he can't use an invoke action anyway......

 

Mercy needed a re-work real bad with the new data cards. The Lion's Lancers were so nasty with the old style mercy I'm afraid to take them back to my shop. There is all sorts of talk about torches, hammers, and even C-4 being used if they show up on the table again! I think they will be much more balanced with the new version, but it's still going to be a while before I'm brave enough to put them on the table..... :unsure:

 

Castlebuilder

 

that is cause they are [WORD DELETED BY MOD] Tim :blink: but the word really wasn't that bad :rolleyes:

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Addressing this specifically, until now the most recent and legal version of mercy took A Column And A Half to explain correctly. I think, personally, it was a LOT more complicated before

 

I guess for me its not a question of complexity, its a question of useability. Until the recent cut in half of the points cost per model, in my playtesting, I could only fit 1-2 leaders in my builds unless I was really trying hard. So, it was not very hard for an enemy to simpy target those 1-2 models and make sure to get rid of them first and therefore negate my ability to use the FACTION special ability. That and having it require an invoke action means that the model has to have an action left to use it. Which most of the time it doesnt because it used its two actions in charging and attacking in the first place. Then you have to rely on the target model still being there when your next activation comes up:

 

 

Ok why not just mercy them instead of converting them??? Mercy and Conversion are still different abilities are they not??? just no combat takes place when a conversion is tried

 

I'm pretty sure the new Mercy/Conversion rules will over write the old Mercy rules.

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Addressing this specifically, until now the most recent and legal version of mercy took A Column And A Half to explain correctly. I think, personally, it was a LOT more complicated before

 

I guess for me its not a question of complexity, its a question of useability. Until the recent cut in half of the points cost per model, in my playtesting, I could only fit 1-2 leaders in my builds unless I was really trying hard. So, it was not very hard for an enemy to simpy target those 1-2 models and make sure to get rid of them first and therefore negate my ability to use the FACTION special ability. That and having it require an invoke action means that the model has to have an action left to use it. Which most of the time it doesnt because it used its two actions in charging and attacking in the first place. Then you have to rely on the target model still being there when your next activation comes up:

 

 

Ok why not just mercy them instead of converting them??? Mercy and Conversion are still different abilities are they not??? just no combat takes place when a conversion is tried

 

I'm pretty sure the new Mercy/Conversion rules will over write the old Mercy rules.

 

yeah i know that but can't troops still offer mercy??? and leaders can do conversion where no combat takes place???

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Mercy can still be offered by any Crusader model. Conversion is leader only. The description of Mercy in the new pdf is missing most of the details, so I assume they remain the same as before. What I'm unclear on is why you'd ever Convert v. Mercy. They seem to accomplish the same thing, only convert requires a leader take their whole turn as opposed to the old way, where you forgo the "killing blow" and offer Mercy instead.

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Addressing this specifically, until now the most recent and legal version of mercy took A Column And A Half to explain correctly. I think, personally, it was a LOT more complicated before

 

I guess for me its not a question of complexity, its a question of useability. Until the recent cut in half of the points cost per model, in my playtesting, I could only fit 1-2 leaders in my builds unless I was really trying hard. So, it was not very hard for an enemy to simpy target those 1-2 models and make sure to get rid of them first and therefore negate my ability to use the FACTION special ability. That and having it require an invoke action means that the model has to have an action left to use it. Which most of the time it doesnt because it used its two actions in charging and attacking in the first place. Then you have to rely on the target model still being there when your next activation comes up:

 

 

Ok why not just mercy them instead of converting them??? Mercy and Conversion are still different abilities are they not??? just no combat takes place when a conversion is tried

 

I'm pretty sure the new Mercy/Conversion rules will over write the old Mercy rules.

 

yeah i know that but can't troops still offer mercy??? and leaders can do conversion where no combat takes place???

Mercy is now what is in that paragrph in the Chronicles. The old rules should not be used for beta testing the new stuff.

 

To convert a model under the new rules you much follow the Conversion or Healing Grraces portions of the new Faction ability.

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But the new description of Mercy doesn't say what happens to the "Mercied" model. I guess just leaving it on its last damage track is setting it up for conversion by a leader?

 

Ack! too slow! :;):

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Different Q: Venom v. Poison spell? They seem identical except one is Reptus only. I'm thinking this will get cleaned up post-beta.

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Different Q: Venom v. Poison spell? They seem identical except one is Reptus only. I'm thinking this will get cleaned up post-beta.

 

Venom 5pts, Reptus Only, 1 point of damage.

 

Poison 5pts, Any Mage, NO damage.

 

 

Venom is pretty much Bolt + Poison. Reptus get it for a discount too!

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My understanding of Mercy is that all it does now is prevent the enemy model from being killed or stunned (leaves it on its last damage track). The ability to bring the enemy over to your side has been split off from Mercy and is the new Conversion faction ability. I was a little confused at first about how Mercy works now, but if you approach it as something completely new and don't try to bring in any of the old rules, it becomes pretty clear how Mercy and Conversion work.

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difference between mercy and convert is, one only leaves someone alive, the other takes him to your side. Mercy no longer is mercy, it is simply, "let you live". And I know the leader cannot use an invoke if he already attacked. That is actually part of my problem with the current beta form of it. I know it was overpowered before. I know it needed some scale back, and again this might be the best way to do it, I wasnt trying to flame it, just saying that considering it takes 3-4 things to happen before you can "convert", I think it needs more playtesting to make sure this is te best way.

 

I understand that getting something like the Hill giant, even on his last track can be huge and therefore needs to have restrictions.

 

Just saying the combination of steps necessary to pull it off seem excessive. Atleast when compared to things like "Sokar is near" and "Necro Fear" that affects every enemy on the table from the get go.

 

Maybe the only thing that needs to change is that it is a free action verses an invoke. That in itself alleviates a bunch of the problem, cause then it could be done immediately after combat has ended and not have to wait til the next activation.

 

Difference between poison and venom... Poison simply gives a poison token (does no damage at the time the spell is cast). Venom does a point of damage and also gives a poison token. At the end of the turn all models with poison token have a chance to take an extra point of damage.

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