wildbill Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 It seems to me there will be a lot more book keeping during a game. Where once you have a few models with multiple damage tracks now every model has multiple damage tracks. Not a complaint as I have yet to play using the new data cards but an observation. IME, it isn't a nightmare level of bookkeeping. Sure there can be more of a challenge in keeping it straight, but it doesn't detract from the improvement I feel this change brings. Again, just IMO, YMMV. I have played quite a few games with the new data cards, and yes, there can be times where each player has four or five models with wounds on it. Years ago, when I was still big on Warhammer, I bought a ton of little bitty 6-sided dice. I use them for wound counters now. (I used them to roll with to pi$$ off my opponents back then!! ) I have found that they fit quite nicely on the bases, thus keeping normal sized 6-siders out of the way. Wild Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storminator Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ok , here's my gripe about the way mercy works now ... Come up with an alternative mechanic, try it out, and see if works better. Email results to EE. I generally agree that it's too hard to fail the Dis check. My first thought was assign a Dis penalty to the roll depending on who's converting: Sgt = -1, Captain = -2, Warlord = -3. The old way didn't work either, so something's got to change. PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelcore Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 [The old way didn't work either, so something's got to change. PS Yep. I have yet to put a Crusader list together. And what little I did with the closed Beta involved Dwarves vs. Nefsokar and Nefsokar vs. Reven. My knee-jerk reaction is quite similar to Brushmasters (and Stubbdog's, and several others). It looks like a faction ability that may only work some of the time. (Conversion, that is. Mercy works all the time. I *HEART* the grammatical clarification, BTW). But for the life of me, I can't think of a way to make Mercy/Conversion work in a way that won't make some people overjoyed/disgusted by it's brokenness that doesn't involve it basically working like the Merc "Change of Heart" ability (though I think that WOULD be pretty cool...). My thoughts are this (brace yerselves, this is where ol' Kel says things horribly uncharacteristic, considering my former love of the Mercy ability): Scrap Mercy/Conversion entirely. I can't see it being any less a sore subject than it is now or has been ever. Make the default list something akin to the Justice sublist (ie: bonuses to MAV/DV against the baddies of Taltos, maybe some more clerical goodies, etc), just inclusive of the Ivy Crown and Anointed. And then maybe add on an Ivy Crown/Anointed sublist in a future Krueger's Journal. And honestly, I'd love to see the Crusader's lose the "friendly" image that Mercy/conversion gives. I'm all about a darker, more deadly Denelspire. But that could be just me. *whew* Holy crap, did I really just post something longer than a sentence in the Warlord forum? Huh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ok , here's my gripe about the way mercy works now ... Come up with an alternative mechanic, try it out, and see if works better. Email results to EE. I generally agree that it's too hard to fail the Dis check. My first thought was assign a Dis penalty to the roll depending on who's converting: Sgt = -1, Captain = -2, Warlord = -3. The old way didn't work either, so something's got to change. PS Yeh , I know they way it was before was too powerful but now ..... . That solution might just work but I'd like to add Elites = -1 , to the mix as they are after all heroes . Keep the solos out of it because they don't want to be slowed down by some tag along , they've got a mission to fullfil . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storminator Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ok , here's my gripe about the way mercy works now ... Come up with an alternative mechanic, try it out, and see if works better. Email results to EE. I generally agree that it's too hard to fail the Dis check. My first thought was assign a Dis penalty to the roll depending on who's converting: Sgt = -1, Captain = -2, Warlord = -3. The old way didn't work either, so something's got to change. PS Yeh , I know they way it was before was too powerful but now ..... . That solution might just work but I'd like to add Elites = -1 , to the mix as they are after all heroes . Keep the solos out of it because they don't want to be slowed down by some tag along , they've got a mission to fullfil . I think adding Elites to the mix is pretty reasonable. There aren't that many of them in the Crusader list. PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storminator Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 My thoughts are this (brace yerselves, this is where ol' Kel says things horribly uncharacteristic, considering my former love of the Mercy ability): Scrap Mercy/Conversion entirely. And honestly, I'd love to see the Crusader's lose the "friendly" image that Mercy/conversion gives. I'm all about a darker, more deadly Denelspire. So you're proposing heresey and advocating the kind of Crusaders that would burn heretics at the stake? Interesting.... PS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelcore Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 So you're proposing heresey and advocating the kind of Crusaders that would burn heretics at the stake? Interesting.... PS Re: Heresy. Considering one of the appeals of the Crusaders (for me) is that it's a faction based off of a single(Important) Heresy? Absolutely! Now, the burning at the stake thing? Only Overlords, Darkspawn, and Necropolis. And maybe Hanged Men. Maybe. Oh yeah, and mummies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun_Warrior Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 OK, I have to chime in on Mercy/Conversion. Only your leaders get to do it? They only have a 50% chance of doing it? Hmmm... where have I heard that before. Oh yeah! My Reven! Only my leaders get to Warcry, and they only have a 50% chance of doing it. If more than Crusader Leaders can do Mercy/Conversion, Reven should get the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelcore Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 OK, I have to chime in on Mercy/Conversion. Only your leaders get to do it? They only have a 50% chance of doing it? Hmmm... where have I heard that before. Oh yeah! My Reven! Only my leaders get to Warcry, and they only have a 50% chance of doing it.If more than Crusader Leaders can do Mercy/Conversion, Reven should get the same thing! Considering Warcry is also a Cleric spell, that CAN happen. :) Mercy/Conversion? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vutpakdi Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 My Reven! Only my leaders get to Warcry, and they only have a 50% chance of doing it.If more than Crusader Leaders can do Mercy/Conversion, Reven should get the same thing! Not any more: spells that are cast on friendly models no longer get the +2 to CP. So, leaders only cast Warcry with an effective CP of 2 and now only have a 30% chance of successfully casting Warcry. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthiir Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 My Reven! Only my leaders get to Warcry, and they only have a 50% chance of doing it.If more than Crusader Leaders can do Mercy/Conversion, Reven should get the same thing! Not any more: spells that are cast on friendly models no longer get the +2 to CP. So, leaders only cast Warcry with an effective CP of 2 and now only have a 30% chance of successfully casting Warcry. Ron unless kiakara is doing the warcry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vutpakdi Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 unless kiakara is doing the warcry. But, in that case, she actually has to take it as a spell since she isn't part of the Tomukh list (so she doesn't get Warcry as an innate spell). Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushmaster Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I think you are also forgetting other Reven faction abilities like Enrage and Ridge Runner . Reven in most case have 2 faction abilites depending on the sub-faction . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircrew0 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 OK, I have to chime in on Mercy/Conversion. Only your leaders get to do it? They only have a 50% chance of doing it? Hmmm... where have I heard that before. Oh yeah! My Reven! Only my leaders get to Warcry, and they only have a 50% chance of doing it.If more than Crusader Leaders can do Mercy/Conversion, Reven should get the same thing! Considering Warcry is also a Cleric spell, that CAN happen. :) Mercy/Conversion? Not so much. ah considering any cleric can use healing grace which oh yeah is half the army Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakhak Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 This is a SERIOUS suggestion. Can all of you Crusader metal heads test this tonight? Make the Conversion automatic. I have one exception to this, please make Unq. Models immune. That means warlords and models that have pledged their lives to their faction cannot be converted. Tell me how this plays. PM me if you can with the results. Edit: The ability saw a ton of nerfs because anyone and everyone could do it and always succeed. So if we want to make the ability better we have to look at it from a give and take Perspective. What you Had: Anyone could do it, It was a part of combat, The odds of converting where in your favor. What you Have: Only leaders can do it, It is an invoke action, The odds are not in your favor. What I think we Should get back: Option A) Give it to everyone as a part of combat. Option B) Give the odds back to the Crusaders. So allowing a leader to auto-convert seems plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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