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Dungeon & Dragon Magazines gone by August


haldir
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Relax people. . .no need to get testy.

 

d&d has been around for a long time and has effected many people in different ways. this is not a thread about which version of the game is better, it is about the end of an era, magazines that most of us read at one time or another for their great content. sure they changed over the years, as did the game, but to start bashing each other over this sad event is unnecessary.

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I wonder how many corporate bigwigs make stupid decisions because they are surounded by spineless "Yes" men who don't have the courage to tell their boss what an idiot he is.

I see it at every job that I've ever worked, why should Paizo be any different?

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I'm actually getting fired up for the Pathfinder series (did my subscription the other day & I HATE SUBSCRIPTIONS), but the involvement of Wayne Reynold's sealed the deal for me, not to mention new info sounds like it'll be a fun ride to be on. (right now Paizo has snippets of the artwork for the series & such.) I'll post here now but when the Pathfinder series starts up in August I want to start a play by post game of that one as well, all is welcome to join when it gets announced.

 

I've liked D&D from the start whether it's basic D&D (remember elf class) or 1e or 2e. Gotta admit I really like 3.whatever as well, but I'm not gonna say that there aren't parts of it that I don't like, the power-gaming stuff is a tad bit overkill, the way the new books that WOTC releases are structured, (DO WE NEED FEATS & Prestige classes in every book, come on) gets old, but to me it's D&D, no matter who the publisher or who's name is on the book.

 

I think I'm more upset just on the reason the moron that decided to go the web route with the mags then anything. I'll continue to buy Wizards book + a little bit of the Paizo stuff as well, as both do have some great stuff, not to mention I've been around Dragon & Dungeon mags since I got into the hobby, to not be able to see them every month is what I'll miss, espically since the last few years have had some great stuff in them for the price as well.

 

Oh well, times are changin I guess..............

 

RM

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Everyone hated the 3.0 and 3.5 rules.

Not everyone. I don't particularly care for D&D (there are other, more elegant rule systems out there, IMO) but when I do play D&D, I'd rather play the 3.0/3.5 rules, as they cleaned up a lot of complexity, and integrated a lot of the AD&D "add-ons" into the core rules.

 

Back on topic - WotC has been yanking their licensing from other companies lately - 6 months ago they pulled it from Code Monkey Publishing, too. This looks very much like the same situation as when GW yanked licensing from companies like Armorcast - I expect that we're going to see some changes at WotC. The question is what are we going to see?

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Its not an issue of expense, or whether Dragon and Dungeon can be consolidated. Its an issue of WotC not renewing the license with Paizo. No doubt the biggest expense in magazine retail is the printing costs. WotC no doubt thinks it can make more money via on-line subscriptions then what they were getting in licensing fees.

 

Frankly, I find the argument "WotC ruined D&D" to be an empty one. There are plenty of people that will stand up and say TSR ruined D&D with 2e, and a small number of people will screed that 1e ruined D&D. No, 3x SAVED D&D from total obscurity as a footnote in the annals of gaming. Yeah, may not be YOUR game, but I like it all the same, and I don't allow my judgement to be clouded by nostalgia; Giving up on to-hit matrices, or THAC0 is a VAST improvement in my book any day. And yeah, I have great memories of playing both 1e and 2e, but measure that with reason that there was a lot in those games that were clunky and didn't work that elegantly...

 

Damon.

 

What's wrong with THAC0? Take a number <=20 and subtract a smaller number from it. This is hard how?

 

I was a bit disappointed to see this announcement, but we had dropped our Dragon subscription over a year ago, and anything you want from Dungeon can already be found online, assuming we want to play 3.x any more - which we don't.

 

Yes, WoTC saved it, and yes, TSR was too far gone, but at what price did the sellout come? Simply put, I don't like the over-simplified dungeon-punk videogame-on-paper AD&D had become (they couldn't even call it AD&D for fear of driving off buyers who shun "advanced" anything). This is what alienated so many customers (frankly, I prefer it if the game only appeals to people who can subtract small numbers in their head) and hence, to some, "ruined the game".

 

This decision, for whatever reason, is just more ruination. I'm looking forward to the time AD&D, er, D&D finally dies and a real game takes its place as number 1.

 

Hopefully that will be Hackmaster.

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the thing that bums me out is that my DM uses the adventure paths for us. Will they continue? If so, great. If not, I don't know...I'm not so happy about that thought. But he has subscriptions to both mags (one a Xmas gift from me) that don't expire until AFTER the mag is over. That rubs me the wrong way-but he says he has options, so I'll deal with it.

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Sad to see en era come to an end, though I must admit i have not purchased an issue of either mag in years. But it's like any other time something we have grown up with goes away it is a painful reminder that life goes on regardless of our thoughts and opinions, all we can do is hope that change is to our liking. On a side note whatever your favorite edition is I say play it! If your passion and spirit are in the game you can make others see the beauty in it! I for one saw beauty in many games and many versions of games some popular some not. Farewell Dragon and Dungeon thanks for some great memories.

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the thing that bums me out is that my DM uses the adventure paths for us. Will they continue? If so, great. If not, I don't know...I'm not so happy about that thought. But he has subscriptions to both mags (one a Xmas gift from me) that don't expire until AFTER the mag is over. That rubs me the wrong way-but he says he has options, so I'll deal with it.

 

They are continuing Dungeon until the Adventure Path concludes. The last adventure is in the August issue.

 

I also have subscriptions that extend beyond the end date, and I got the following options:

 

Get 4 Pathfinders, worth about $70.

Spend money in their online store, worth about $40.

11 back issues, the balance of my subscriptions.

Get my money back, worth $35.

 

Overall, I consider the various options more than reasonable, considering that Paizo doesn't really have the ability to keep printing the magazines. I certainly have no complaint with Paizo.

 

PS

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I have fond memories of the early Dragons (I've got them from the sixties or so) and when White Dwarf had D&D material!! Those were the days for me.

 

Modules came in the cardboard sleeve, with the maps on the inside, so it doubled as a DM screen, and ran around 8 to 10 dollars. Now it seems like Hasbro is taking people in with hardbound 35$ and up books because that's where the money is. I guess print magazines are going the way of the dodo bird.

 

Some people really seem to enjoy this latest incarnation, and if so, by all means play, but I can understand the jaded cynicism of old head gamers who no longer care for D&D.

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Get 4 Pathfinders, worth about $70.

 

So a pathfinder is worth over $15? Maybe I don't understand them, but they sound like an adventure, and I'd rather pick a module at the store instead of commit to a subscription.

 

Each Pathfinder is an adventure with some support material. Each is 96 pages.

 

Each one follows the previous one in level and story, so a subscription isn't unreasonable.

 

PS

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96 pages CAN be a lot of material, but if it's laid out in the new "everything at your fingertips" format (which is a great format for the web utilizing hyperlinks but takes up WAY too much space in print) then a simple encounter will be 2 pages long. The largest module for Hackmaster has MSRP of $18 (note that the dollar sign goes in front of the numbers in the US) and nearly 150 pages.

 

A subscription series of modules sounds like one more way to suck money from consumers with minimum content. Even if you don't like the first one or 2 modules enough to buy the next one at the store, are you going to be upset when they send it to you since you've prepaid?

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Even if you don't like the first one or 2 modules enough to buy the next one at the store, are you going to be upset when they send it to you since you've prepaid?

 

You mean if I chose to spend my money on the product will I be upset if they actually send it to me? Ummmmmm, no.

 

No one's holding a gun to my head and demanding that I pick the subscription option.

 

I suggest that before you continue to comment on the product you actually figure out what it is. http://paizo.com/paizo

 

And for god's sake, don't try and sell me on Hackmaster. It's dreadful. I already have all the 1e and 2e material (none of which I will ever play again), so why do I need a cheesy knock off?

 

PS

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the subscription run month to month for Pathfinder, don't like that 1st one cancel it before the next "issue" ships. Also Paizo said they will ship normal post not periodical rate, so no wait (one reason I subscribed + can't get them around here, sooooo

 

Also, think of Wizard's Red Hand of Doom adventure that came out a couple years ago when thinking of a Pathfinder's size. Also they won't be magazines, but a (quoted from Paizo's Pathfinder homepage, btw) a 96-page, perfect-bound, full-color softcover Adventure Path book printed on high-quality paper that releases in a monthly volume. Each volume contains an in-depth Adventure Path scenario, stats for about a half-dozen new monsters, and several support articles meant to give Game Masters additional material to expand their campaign. Because Pathfinder uses the Open Game License, it is 100% compatible with the world's most popular fantasy roleplaying game. Paizo plans to release Adventure Paths in six-volume arcs, meaning each year of Pathfinder will include two complete Adventure Paths. The first Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rise of the Runelords, will comprise the first six volumes of Pathfinder. A new Adventure Path will begin in Pathfinder #7.

 

Also the the setting is new setting as well, each issue will give tidbits on that as well. Like I said I'm kinda excited to see the first issue of this, as I love the adventure path adventures (Shackled City, Age of Worms & the current one Savage Tide).

 

Anther nice feature of subscribing is getting pdf version of the issue + getting the Player's Guide to the Rise of the Runelords (ie what the 1st Pathfinder series will be about), The guide for Savage Tide is really nice, really helps the players of your game get a feel for the setting & such, neat idea.

RM

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