Elves

[Millerthyme]

This is kind of random, but what are the chances of Danithal being able to take a unit of Royal Guards as grunts? I know other factions can do this or a variation of (Crusader's "The Wolf" comes to mind), so I'm just hoping (because I really like the Royal Guard).

 

I hope not. There are already 2 other Factions with a SA like this: Necropolis w/ Judas' Crimson Knights, and Overlords w/ Marquisa's Personal Retinue of Daughters of the Whip.

 

The Wolf is quite a bit different because it allows any Adept, instead of a specific Adept Model, as does the new Razig SA, I'm Capt of the Ship.

 

If you start giving every Faction that ability, you start losing some of the unqiue aspect of the SA. Elves already have a few pretty unpleasant Adepts that have been granted Grunt status in their lists, especially the Woodland Protectors sublist.

 

Good point- and I was just voicing ideas anyway.

 

Now for a discussion point: Rangers or Vale Archers? Archers have the advantage of Marksman and one more RAV, but the Rangers can really move and shoot as well as being actually pretty good in melee. I know the adept/grunt difference, but I think a large unit of Rangers will be hard to pass up.

 

Questions? Comments? Rude Remarks?

For the tourney game that I played Tuesday, I had 5 troops, 1 being the sniper and the others had at least 2 rangers and 1 archer plus some melee or 2 archers and 1 ranger with support. I played against the mercenaries and it was a complete annihilation. IMO I say why choose one out of the 2 when you can use both?

[Qwyksilver]

Good point MT. Elven Rangers lose their Adept status in both the Default and Woodland Protectors list.

[headache62]

For the tourney game that I played Tuesday, I had 5 troops, 1 being the sniper and the others had at least 2 rangers and 1 archer plus some melee or 2 archers and 1 ranger with support. I played against the mercenaries and it was a complete annihilation. IMO I say why choose one out of the 2 when you can use both?

 

I think your army was illegal - if you were playing Standard Elves, Rangers are adepts and you have can't have them in more than one troop (unless it was a 4000 point game). If you were playing the Woodland Protectors, then Vale Archers were not a legal troop type. I may be missing something, so could you please clarify your army?

[shakhak]

For the tourney game that I played Tuesday, I had 5 troops, 1 being the sniper and the others had at least 2 rangers and 1 archer plus some melee or 2 archers and 1 ranger with support. I played against the mercenaries and it was a complete annihilation. IMO I say why choose one out of the 2 when you can use both?

 

I think your army was illegal - if you were playing Standard Elves, Rangers are adepts and you have can't have them in more than one troop (unless it was a 4000 point game). If you were playing the Woodland Protectors, then Vale Archers were not a legal troop type. I may be missing something, so could you please clarify your army?

On page 41 of of the Rage Chronicles you'll find this:

Elves

Army List Name: Elves Default

Restrictions: Any Model of Elves Affiliation

Models that change to Non-Unique/Grunt:

Elven Ranger, Grunt

Hunting Cat, Grunt

Mossbeard the Treeman, Monster

 

Army List Name: Woodland Protectors Sublist

Restrictions: The following Models only:

Argyrian, Silver Dragon

Ilmarin, Wood Elf

Chiral, Centaur Sergeant

Tanwylen, Satyr

Silvermaine, Unicorn

Dehanis, Druidess

Drys, Dryad

Centaur Archer

Centaur Warrior

Elven Ranger

Faery

Hunting Cat

Satyr Warrior

Faun

Vale Warrior

Giant Eagle

Mossbeard the Treeman

Galdanoth, Elven Sniper

Models that change to Non-Unique/Grunt:

Chiral, Sergeant

Tanwylen, Satyr, Sergeant

Silvermaine, Unicorn, Hero

Centaur Archer, Grunt

Centaur Warrior, Grunt

Elven Ranger, Grunt

Hunting Cat, Grunt

Satyr Warrior, Grunt

Giant Eagle, Monster

Mossbeard the Treeman, Monster

 

 

So in both lists the Elven rangers are grunts, and his army was legal as a Default Elven List.

 

Edited: Made it easier to read.

Edited June 16, 2007 by shakhak

[headache62]

For the tourney game that I played Tuesday, I had 5 troops, 1 being the sniper and the others had at least 2 rangers and 1 archer plus some melee or 2 archers and 1 ranger with support. I played against the mercenaries and it was a complete annihilation. IMO I say why choose one out of the 2 when you can use both?

 

I think your army was illegal - if you were playing Standard Elves, Rangers are adepts and you have can't have them in more than one troop (unless it was a 4000 point game). If you were playing the Woodland Protectors, then Vale Archers were not a legal troop type. I may be missing something, so could you please clarify your army?

On page 41 of of the Rage Chronicles you'll find this:

Elves

Army List Name: Elves Default

Restrictions: Any Model of Elves Affiliation

Models that change to Non-Unique/Grunt:

Elven Ranger, Grunt

Hunting Cat, Grunt

Mossbeard the Treeman, Monster

 

You are quite right - I missed that on my first read-through, and I saw it this afternoon (when my power was out and I couldn't connect to the internet . Sorry about my confusion!

[rgtriplec]

I played the Woodland Furry list tonight and won. I brought a total melee force without any archers, clerics or mages.

 

My opponent was playing Good/Neutral Mercs. His force was a troop of Blade Sisters. A troop of about a half dozen Minotaurs, a Minotaur solo, a couple Shadow sisters and spear-men and a cleric with healing spells. And four Onyx Chevies for his FA card.

 

We both had four troops.

 

Argyrian 294

Silvermaine 57

2 x Faery 42 = 84

2 satyrs = 106

 

Chiral 63

3 x Warriors 61 = 183

 

Chiral 63

2 x Hunting Cat 49 = 98

3 x Satyrs = 159

 

Ilmarin 77

2 x Hunting Cat 49 = 98

3 x Satyrs = 159

Silvermaine 57

 

1498

4 cards/troops

23 models

 

When the game was called he had about 6 models left. I had lost all the centaurs but one Chiral, 3 cats, one unicorn, one faery, and one Satyr. So I had about a dozen models left and a dragon with 5 wounds.

 

The FAs are great if you play them right, that -1 move in heavy woods is a killer and the -1 DV is great.

 

So to the nay sayers, Elf melee can be very powerful. My next game is either Army of Justice or Shooty default elves. I think this list can probably fair pretty well against both. Those Satyrs are much better than I thought. I only wish my entire army wasn't proxies.

[headache62]

I played last night at Gamewyze in Vista Ridge in Lewisville, TX - I used this army that I am affectionately calling "Danithal's Magic and Mayhem" 1501 (although I don't have my list in front of me, I'll do my best to remember it all - if I mess up I'll go back and correct it this afternoon)

 

Danithal - GMA, Counterspell, Bolt, Lightning Bolt

Dehanis - Holy Symbol, Cure 2 x2, Hold, Burst of Speed

Royal Guards x6

 

Larnach - Greater Familiar, Counterspell x2, Arcane Blast (the three damage one) x2, Lightning Blast, Rock Friend

Vale Archers x 3

 

Ilmarin

Rangers x 5 (I think -might be 4 - I'll check when I get home)

 

Sniper

 

19 models - Spy x2 - 5 Cards

 

It did ok - I was playing against a Crusader Army of Justice, so deflect hurt me a few times. And the three Finaris (not much fun for little Fabio). But it came down to a Finari and an Ironspine against my Sniper, and the only reason I lost was that I failed to disengage from melee twice and fled. I like this army, but I need to practice with it.

 

Rangers are good - they can shoot and move for no penalty (no Marksman decisions to make and Sure Shot helps a lot) as well as being very competant in melee.

 

I'm considering changing out the Vale Archers for Rangers and the Royal Guard for Deathseekers - I still can't decide which ones I like better - the Deathseekers have 3 attacks, but their stats degrade a LOT faster than the Royal Guards.

 

Please help me out - let me know what i should do or recommend changes that I can make.

 

Thanks!

[headache62]

I played the Woodland Furry list tonight and won. I brought a total melee force without any archers, clerics or mages.

 

My opponent was playing Good/Neutral Mercs. His force was a troop of Blade Sisters. A troop of about a half dozen Minotaurs, a Minotaur solo, a couple Shadow sisters and spear-men and a cleric with healing spells. And four Onyx Chevies for his FA card.

 

We both had four troops.

 

Argyrian 294

Silvermaine 57

2 x Faery 42 = 84

2 satyrs = 106

 

Chiral 63

3 x Warriors 61 = 183

 

Chiral 63

2 x Hunting Cat 49 = 98

3 x Satyrs = 159

 

Ilmarin 77

2 x Hunting Cat 49 = 98

3 x Satyrs = 159

Silvermaine 57

 

1498

4 cards/troops

23 models

 

When the game was called he had about 6 models left. I had lost all the centaurs but one Chiral, 3 cats, one unicorn, one faery, and one Satyr. So I had about a dozen models left and a dragon with 5 wounds.

 

The FAs are great if you play them right, that -1 move in heavy woods is a killer and the -1 DV is great.

 

So to the nay sayers, Elf melee can be very powerful. My next game is either Army of Justice or Shooty default elves. I think this list can probably fair pretty well against both. Those Satyrs are much better than I thought. I only wish my entire army wasn't proxies.

 

How did the Satyrs do? I'm still deciding about if I want to run them or not.

[rgtriplec]

How did the Satyrs do? I'm still deciding about if I want to run them or not.

 

 

5 Satyrs, 1 Unicorn, 4 cats and the Wood Elf took out 4 chevies and 2 minotaurs, maybe 3. I was very impressed. They are like fielding very fast Death seekers. Everything on my list was a warmaster but the faeries and I brought them thinking my opponent would proxy for Rathuros instead of fielding the heavy cav. I figured in the air the dragon and two faeries would tear Rath apart.

[kristof65]

So I've been thinking of building a mainly Centaur Army, using the Woodland protectors list. Since this won't be a cheap army to actually build (particularly with the number of conversions I'm wanting to do), I want to see if I have a viable force list before I start buying. Here's what I'm thinking about -

 

Argyrian 294

Silvermaine 57

5 x Centaur Archers

5 x Centaur Warriors

 

 

Chiral 63

6 x Centaur Warriors

 

That gives me a total of 1450 points, which leaves some leftover points for magic, spells and such in a 1500 point force.

 

I know that with only the two troops, I get only the two activation cards. What am I looking at as far as weaknesses in this list and it's strengths? Recommended changes? Keep in mind I have exactly one warlord game as experience, and that my desire behind this force is to be primarly Centaurs, and fast moving - hard hitting would be nice, too, but I want speed to be the main focus.

[Mclimbin]

Seems like with all the cavalry size bases you'd be vulnerable to a horde type army. Even though the max bonus is capped at +3, your opponent can still attack with more than 3 models. Of course I've got only a smidge more WL experience than you, so I'd like to hear what the more seasoned players think.

[rcrosby]

What am I looking at as far as weaknesses in this list and it's strengths? Recommended changes? Keep in mind I have exactly one warlord game as experience, and that my desire behind this force is to be primarly Centaurs, and fast moving - hard hitting would be nice, too, but I want speed to be the main focus.

I think you will be disappointed with the performance of the Centaur Archers, especially 5 of them. RAV 4 without Sure Shot is pretty bad for such an expensive model, and they don't have much else to offer. The Silver Dragon and the Centaur Warriors are top notch, however!

 

Rich

[kristof65]

What am I looking at as far as weaknesses in this list and it's strengths? Recommended changes? Keep in mind I have exactly one warlord game as experience, and that my desire behind this force is to be primarly Centaurs, and fast moving - hard hitting would be nice, too, but I want speed to be the main focus.

I think you will be disappointed with the performance of the Centaur Archers, especially 5 of them. RAV 4 without Sure Shot is pretty bad for such an expensive model, and they don't have much else to offer. The Silver Dragon and the Centaur Warriors are top notch, however!

Hmm - I didn't think in the scheme of things an RAV of 4 was that bad.

 

Doing some quick number crunching/searching on the Data card search reveals 91 models with an RAV of 1 or more. 62 models have an RAV of 4 or more, of those, 30 have an RAV of 4. Almost 1/3rd of the models in Warlord have an RAV of 4, and only two of those have Sure Shot.

 

My thinking was mostly that with the speed this army has, plus the Woodland Protectors FA of Summon Woods, the point is really to out-maneuver the opposing army, rather than slug it out in a head to head firefight. Am I that wrong?

[merlonc]

I would consider taking the archers out of the main troop and splitting them into 1 or two small bands with a centaur seargent. With the centaur speed and the unit leaders ability to summon heavy woods on top of them they can stay out of fights forever.

 

I know you are staying with centaurs but consider a few hunting cats instead of all warriors.

 

Take this with a grain of salt as I am just starting Warlord. I am a big GW Woodelf player and in the Woodland Protectors Reaper finally made an army that fits what I like.

 

I am looking at something like the following for one of my warbands. Centaur Seargent, 2-3 hunting cats, 2-3 rangers

[headache62]

Hmm - I didn't think in the scheme of things an RAV of 4 was that bad.

 

Doing some quick number crunching/searching on the Data card search reveals 91 models with an RAV of 1 or more. 62 models have an RAV of 4 or more, of those, 30 have an RAV of 4. Almost 1/3rd of the models in Warlord have an RAV of 4, and only two of those have Sure Shot.

 

My thinking was mostly that with the speed this army has, plus the Woodland Protectors FA of Summon Woods, the point is really to out-maneuver the opposing army, rather than slug it out in a head to head firefight. Am I that wrong?

 

What you really have to consider with RAV 4 is what you are going to be shooting at. I for one really like to be able to out maneuver my opponent, but at the same time there are very few scenarios where the point is to go around everyone (there is one, but I don't know if it will be very common in tourneys). There are plenty of models that you might shoot at that you will need an 8, 9, or 10 to hit. Now this is not as detrimental with Sure Shot, but in a Woodland Protectors your next best bet is to pop woods underneath primary targets to lower their DEF by 1. I like being able to hit things without being hit back (which is why I like a 30 inch range), and the Elves schtick is all about hit and fade, but you still have to be able to hit in the first place. Plus, the single attacks mean that it might be difficult to take down many models, and if they opponent has healers it will be that much harder.

 

The Warriors are super tough, but at the same time they face the attack maneuverability problems of cavalry. Plus there are two things you must consider - 1) 50 points is not a lot of useful spells or upgrades for Chiral (Chiral being the only non-soldier without Beast) and 2) With only two initiative cards, you will be horribly behind in terms of activations.

 

I don't have any thoughts about how to fix #1, but with #2 you could take 2 archers from Argyrian's unit and make them Outriders. It costs you 30 points, but IMO the two extra cards and activations would be well worth it.