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I was on the recieving end of Crusader Cavalry, and I have to say at 100+ points each they are pretty well worth every point spent on them.

Yeh , and I forgot about "Shock" . :blink: D'oh ! :wacko:

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Yeh , and I forgot about "Shock" . :blink: D'oh ! :wacko:

 

Shock is useless. Mostly because I forget about it all the time. It might be easier if it was on the Weapon SA list, instead of the general Model SA's.

 

It's doubly useless because the 2 times I have remembered it, I was unsuccessful. So clearly, based on that extensive testing, it is useless :lol:::P:

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Not only did I forget "Shock" but I also forgot about "Fearsome" on the Angel . :wacko: Mercy didn't come up because not only were my 2 leaders either engaged or to far away but I didn't want to give SE a model back with a chance of enraging and doing more damage to one of my models . It hardly comes into play , therefore not worth the risk . <_<

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Hey , you might have forgotten Fearsome, but I forgot to add my +3 support bonus to about 9 attaks so let's call that even ::P:

 

I think I need a check list every time any sort of engagement takes place:

 

Part A) Moving into contact

 

1) Does the Defender have Fearsome?

 

2) Does the Attacker have Shock?

 

3) Can the defender make a facing adjustment?

 

Part B) Undertaking attacks

 

4) Declare attacks

 

5) Declare defensive strikes (Does the Defender have Warmaster?)

 

4) Did the attacker move into combat? If so do any models have First strike attacks? If so resolved these first.

 

5) Are there friendly models supporting the Attacker?

 

6) Are their any models lending reach support to the Attacker?

 

7) Are any models attacking from the rear?

 

8) Attacker attacks (occurs simultaniously with step 10)

 

9) Does the Defender have Trencher? If so is the model being given a bonus by a Reach model?

 

10) Defender strikes back defensively (occurs simultaneously with step 8).

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Hey , you might have forgotten Fearsome, but I forgot to add my +3 support bonus to about 9 attaks so let's call that even ::P:

 

I think I need a check list every time any sort of engagement takes place:

 

Part A) Moving into contact

 

1) Does the Defender have Fearsome?

 

2) Does the Attacker have Shock?

 

3) Can the defender make a facing adjustment?

 

Part B) Undertaking attacks

 

4) Declare attacks

 

5) Declare defensive strikes (Does the Defender have Warmaster?)

 

4) Did the attacker move into combat? If so do any models have First strike attacks? If so resolved these first.

 

5) Are there friendly models supporting the Attacker?

 

6) Are their any models lending reach support to the Attacker?

 

7) Are any models attacking from the rear?

 

8) Attacker attacks (occurs simultaniously with step 10)

 

9) Does the Defender have Trencher? If so is the model being given a bonus by a Reach model?

 

10) Defender strikes back defensively (occurs simultaneously with step 8).

Whoa! You're making my head hurt ! :wacko::lol:

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I just bought the starter set of Warlord, wondering on ideas to expand the Crusaders in the box to 1000. Any good ideas for builds. I am lost.

A few Ironspines would be a nice addition to your knights. Another leader or two would also be a good idea. If spell casting is your style, you could pick up a Valandil or Halbarad to fill one of Gerard's elite slots. If you want some heavy hitting power, a couple of Lion's Lancers are a good choice.

 

Castlebuilder

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I just bought the starter set of Warlord, wondering on ideas to expand the Crusaders in the box to 1000. Any good ideas for builds. I am lost.

 

Which set are you refering to? The one with the rule book and both a crusader and necropolis army?

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I just bought the starter set of Warlord, wondering on ideas to expand the Crusaders in the box to 1000. Any good ideas for builds. I am lost.

 

Which set are you refering to? The one with the rule book and both a crusader and necropolis army?

The one with the Cusaders and necropolis armies. Is has the following in it

Lord Ironraven

Halabarad

Unforgiven (9)

Adrian

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You might want to buy the Crusader starter box with Duke Gerard ,8 Templar Knights and Valandil . Very good value . ::D:

Leaders , all are pretty effective but that depands on what you want to do . Foot troops - I reccomend Sir Broderick , Sir Brannor , Sir Malcom and Sir Conlan .

Cavalry - Sir Danel and Herne , and Herne is a non-unique in an all Crusader list . Other foot troops - Justicars (4 tracks and they whack well) , Ironspines for their First Strike and support ,Hospitaliers for Healer and Ivy Crown Skirmishers for cheap , effective fighters . Lion Lancers are awesome but expensive , pointwise . Elites - Finari and Marcus Gideon for foot troops , and Sir Damon if you want to really beef up the Lion Lancer unit . Solo - Celestial Lion , Guardian Beast of Aurellius and the Guardian Angel , depending on the points available . :rock:

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Here's how I feel so far. I haven't bought my all calvary army, but it's only a matter of time.

 

The good:

 

Lion lancers, Lion lancers, Lion lancers. These guys look bad enough to break anyone with, and now they measure up to their leader Danel (who is also one scary mofo). Sir Damon is now much more fieldable as he's not going to break anytime he gets attacked by a couple piddly little breaker type models. Love the calvary.

 

Lots more healing to go around. Crusaders were healing heavy before, but now they really show it.

 

Templar Ironspines, need I say more?

 

The Angel.

 

Justicars: these guys are the back bone of the crusaders now. Needless to say, I'm glad I have 12 of these bad dudes painted.

 

 

 

The bad:

 

Lady Jehenne. Why have 3 attacks and a MAV of 6 if a grunt is going to run you over in melee? Heaven forbid she fight 2 at once.

 

Change of role for the army. Previously I thought of the crusaders as THE defensive army. High DV and high MD across the board. You could really hunker down and take a pounding with tons of healing to back it up. Now you're talking pretty average units across the board (calvary not included). Justicars are the big heavy hitters now, and that's not saying too much. Even the darkspawn have heavier hitters then Crusaders now (OUCH!). Again, not talking about the calvary, those guys are absolutely solid. I think the overlords are also feeling the pain in this regard.

 

 

 

The Ugly:

 

Lord Ironraven, Halbarad, Marcus Gideon, especially Marcus Gideon. You'd think these dudes would strap one some extra armor or something being around knights all the time. Halbarad got a nice boost, but I'd still never field him. In previous version I NEVER fielded an army without 2 of these bad dudes. yada, yada, yada big dudes were underpowered, but these guys gave a bang for their buck. Now I don't think I could ever see myself fielding Marcus Gideon again: which is sad, since he is my favorite model in the entire army.

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The Ugly:

 

Lord Ironraven, Halbarad, Marcus Gideon, especially Marcus Gideon. You'd think these dudes would strap one some extra armor or something being around knights all the time. Halbarad got a nice boost, but I'd still never field him. In previous version I NEVER fielded an army without 2 of these bad dudes. yada, yada, yada big dudes were underpowered, but these guys gave a bang for their buck. Now I don't think I could ever see myself fielding Marcus Gideon again: which is sad, since he is my favorite model in the entire army.

 

What's the problem with these models? Looking at their stats it's not obvious to me that they're useless.

 

PS

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What's the problem with these models? Looking at their stats it's not obvious to me that they're useless.

 

PS

 

Not useless so much as they fill a much different role. Before I would strap some GMA on Gideon and send him out there as my tank hero, and he did an absolutely remarkable job of it. I've had instances of him straight up taking on a full troop with a little bit of support. Now I don't think I'd have him stand toe to toe with any melee adept in the entire game.

 

Halbarad is the one more on the fences about. I like the boost in DV, as he's pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to cleric DV (dwarves not included because they are absolutely hardcore now), but he really became an iffy caster. Before he was a pretty great cleric, only a 10% miss chance with no items. Now you're talking a 30% miss chance, which is a large difference.

 

Lord Ironraven, where to begin. I didn't use him originally, until he got his spear in the faction book. After that he was pretty much always out on the board, right behind a templar knight. He was an incredibly powerful captain before, costing at somewhere around 106 he was one of the stronger captains in the game. Now he's just about the cheapest (and weakest) you can find anywhere. Also before Ironraven had some flavor, he was different. I don't think another model in the game actually had big, and that made him unique. I particularly enjoyed this pecularity.

 

Mostly what I'm complaining about is the huge change of roles for models I thought were completely balanced and I loved playing with on the board. I have 4 painted halbarads as I would often put out multiple of him. It just upsets me that I have these really cool models that I don't actually see myself playing with anymore.

 

 

Also I'm forced to comment on Broderick not making a lick of sense to me. He leads the justicars, he's one of their leaders. How is he flat out worse than the guys he is supposed to lead? I've heard the phrase "The crap floats to the top", but I couldn't really see that as being true in an army.

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What's the problem with these models? Looking at their stats it's not obvious to me that they're useless.

 

PS

 

Not useless so much as they fill a much different role. Before I would strap some GMA on Gideon and send him out there as my tank hero, and he did an absolutely remarkable job of it. I've had instances of him straight up taking on a full troop with a little bit of support. Now I don't think I'd have him stand toe to toe with any melee adept in the entire game.

 

But can't you see him throwing some +9s on Gauntfield? Or Judas? I don't think he's a head to head beast, but that's why he's got backstab, so he never fights head to head.

 

Halbarad is the one more on the fences about. I like the boost in DV, as he's pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to cleric DV (dwarves not included because they are absolutely hardcore now), but he really became an iffy caster. Before he was a pretty great cleric, only a 10% miss chance with no items. Now you're talking a 30% miss chance, which is a large difference.

 

Really the only negative of the new Halbarad is the loss of +2 on friendlies. But he's got Healer now, and staying power. You must play a very different style than we do around here, but the old Halby's DV8 meant he was blown off the field long ago.

 

Lord Ironraven, where to begin. I didn't use him originally, until he got his spear in the faction book. After that he was pretty much always out on the board, right behind a templar knight. He was an incredibly powerful captain before, costing at somewhere around 106 he was one of the stronger captains in the game. Now he's just about the cheapest (and weakest) you can find anywhere. Also before Ironraven had some flavor, he was different. I don't think another model in the game actually had big, and that made him unique. I particularly enjoyed this pecularity.

 

The Onyx Golem had Big, but I get the point. He has definitely become more bland, but he's really cheap and does have a bigger troop size than most captains. And cheap, lord is he cheap.

 

I think he lost his non-unique so folks would field more of him, and paint up more versions of an absolutely gorgeous model.

 

Mostly what I'm complaining about is the huge change of roles for models I thought were completely balanced and I loved playing with on the board. I have 4 painted halbarads as I would often put out multiple of him. It just upsets me that I have these really cool models that I don't actually see myself playing with anymore.

 

OK.

 

Also I'm forced to comment on Broderick not making a lick of sense to me. He leads the justicars, he's one of their leaders. How is he flat out worse than the guys he is supposed to lead? I've heard the phrase "The crap floats to the top", but I couldn't really see that as being true in an army.

 

He lost a point of DIS, and Deflect/2 for one more Tough and one more track and Trencher. How much worse is that really?

 

Guess we just have different perspectives.

 

PS

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