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Thanks for the advice. Considering that, I put together this list, which I cross posted in the crusaders tactics hread, although that hasn't been posted in in a while :ph34r:

 

Its a 750 list.

 

Duke Gerard w/ Holy Weapon, GMA, Hold, Dispel

Valandil w/ Fireball, Ice Blast, Stun

8x Templar Knights

 

Hound of Judgement

 

Sir Conlan w/ Blessing, MA

3x Ivy Crown Archers

 

The hound can be summoned on through either conlan to protect the missile troops from fast flankers, or from the duke as part of the main fighting force. Conlan can also put up a bit of a fight in melee to protect the archers as well.

 

Blessing on conlan will make the archers slightly more effective, and combined with Valandil, I am counting on them to plink away at range while the duke and the knights close. Valandil also has stun to lock down a pesky solo or nasty warlard/captain, the same reason I bought my own dispel.

 

Thoughts?

 

Take multiple blessings with Conlan, as successive castings can stack over 2 rounds (eg. Round one, blessing = +1, round two, 2nd blessing gives an additional +1 for a total of +2, round three, 2nd blessing still gives +1)

 

Don't count on Valandil for much of anything but taking out weak low MD grunts. In order to figure out just what he is likely to damage with his spells compare his CP of 6 against the targets MD. Most mainline grunts and adepts are in the 11-12 range, meaning you'll only have a 50/50 chance of getting your spell off against them. And a stun vs. a Leader, Elite or Solo is likely to be even harder as these models often push past the MD 12 mark. It isn't a bad idea, but Valandil is a weak caster, if you are going to field him you need to field him with a casting upgrade in most circumstances.

 

In a game this size you've beefed Gerard up a bit too much, Keep the GMA but rather than take the Holy weapon, use those points to upgrade a couple of your knights to justicars, you'll get alot more bang for your buck by doing so (Or use those points to upgrade Valandil's CP). The holy weapon allows you 1 re-roll at MAV 8, upgrading two knights to justicars gives you +2 MAV and Warmaster to two of your models, along with an additional wound track to those models. Plus you would have 10 points left over to give Conlan more blessing spells.

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A cute little piece of extra metal as of RC 2007.

You could use it to represent the purchase of a Page. The figure itself would have no effect on the game - would not block LOS, prevent b2b, etc - but you could use it to represent Krissy's Page if you chose to purchase the upgrade.

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How to deal with darkspawn?

 

Example 1500pts:

queen + ice storms/fireballs/chain lightnings with fodder

keradaan with pinners

rauthuros + fireballs/counter spells

guros + counter spells + imps

Pretty tournament variant.

 

I didn't however take only spawn into consideration, and made something like that

Duke Gerard blessing, GMA,GMW

Halbarad Blessing, Vigour, 2*Holy light, Holy Symbol

Finari

Hospitalier

4 Templar Knight

2 Templar Ironspine

 

Sir Broderic GMA

Ian 4*Counter spells

Hospitalier

3 Templar Knight

2 Templar Ironspine

 

Sir Brannor

2 Templar Unforgiven

2 Templar Ironspine

3 Templar Knight

 

Celestial Lion

Hound of Judgement

Garr

 

Loose formation, advancing at full speed, praying for counterspells. Not many casualties, but then a wall of undying fodder.

Magic and shooting in combat. There is something wrong with pain cage, it seems to break the game. With the mostly 3-4 wound models, he has a plenty of points. Rauthuros both times came in a well placed charge to kill a couple of minor leaders/elites, but was succesfully swarmed and cut down by Gerard/Hound later. Opponent forgot to invoke fly to save him both times, otherwise I wouldn't have any chance to kill it.

 

Two games were completely lost. No mercy, no way to kill that fodder.

Angel seems the most promising variant, but queen will shot him down with storms. Magic won't help either.

Shooting? With current Ivy Crown ineffective.

What to do with them? :angry:

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How to deal with darkspawn?

 

Example 1500pts:

queen + ice storms/fireballs/chain lightnings with fodder

keradaan with pinners

rauthuros + fireballs/counter spells

guros + counter spells + imps

Pretty tournament variant.

 

1) In RCo8 He won't have pinners

 

2) He is investing far too much in 3 models, this can be taken advantage of as they will be almost impossible to keep alive with Pain Cage.

 

3) Rauthoros' Spell casting abilities are lessened in RC08

 

4) Broken Fodder still require 3 Pain Tokens to be kept alive under the Pain Cage rule, so each time he slays one of your 3-track models he can keep a fodder alive. The best way to avoid playing into his hands is to increase your points/damage track ratio. Use Justicars or Cavalry(even an army of Justice to get the +1 MAV is an option) and other hefty models, this is one of the few situations where going grunt heavy can hurt you as he can take advantage of all the damage track on the table.

 

5) Area of effect Spells and ranged attacks will be of great benefit after the RC08 changes. These are more cost effective and will allow you to pummel the fodder early in the game before he can build up his pain cage. If you let the pain cage get built up you'll be hooped. You can't expect to field an near entirely melee force against a much more balanced force like the one being used against you and do well. Ivy Crown Archers + Ian and Valandil now having Innate(Bolt) will boost your abilities a huge amount. A Troop of 4-5 Archers + Acacia or Conlan loaded with 2 Bless spells will Make mince meat of the Broken Fodder with their Marksman/2.

 

6) The Angel isn't a terrible idea, and remember that all ranges from ground casters and ranged attackers are Halved while in the air, and you are harder to hit. You'd have to worry about Rauthorous, but the Angel is one of only a couple models in the game that can take Rauthorous on as an equal.

 

7) I like your use of Holy Light, include more of them, Brannor and the Duke could be carrying 1-2, and Fodder should fall in droves to this sort of spell, the Ice Queen can't counter every spell you have, and every time she does she is one step closer to running out of them, make her waste them on crappy spells. She'd have to be getting pretty close to dispel a Holy Light, close enough that you could charge her.

 

8) Take Familiars, any time a Mage uses a counterspell on you and you miscast your spell you won't lose it.

 

 

 

Loose formation, advancing at full speed, praying for counterspells. Not many casualties, but then a wall of undying fodder.

Magic and shooting in combat. There is something wrong with pain cage, it seems to break the game. With the mostly 3-4 wound models, he has a plenty of points. Rauthuros both times came in a well placed charge to kill a couple of minor leaders/elites, but was succesfully swarmed and cut down by Gerard/Hound later. Opponent forgot to invoke fly to save him both times, otherwise I wouldn't have any chance to kill it.

 

Two games were completely lost. No mercy, no way to kill that fodder.

Angel seems the most promising variant, but queen will shot him down with storms. Magic won't help either.

Shooting? With current Ivy Crown ineffective.

What to do with them? :angry:

 

Try Something Like this maybe? (Using RC08 datacards)

 

Troop 1:

Duke Gerard

+Greater Armor

+Holy Light

Justicars x4

Ivy Archers x2

Hospitaliers x2

Ian

+Counterspell x2

+Ice Shards x2

 

Troop 2:

Brannor

+Magic Armor

+Holy Light

+Cure 1

Justicars x4

Ivy Archers x2

Hospitaliers x2

Ian

+Counterspellx2

+Ice Shardsx2

 

Troop 3:

Danel

Lancersx2

Ivy Archersx3

 

Army Upgrade: Amulet of Luck

 

Not sure how well it will work, but I do Know that the Lancers are a nasty piece of work, and 7 Archers gives you 21 shots per turn at pretty dismal DV 9 on the Fodder so it isn't unrealistic to be taking out 4-5 Fodder per turn; plus use your Ian models to take out any wounded models on their last track or two (using Innate bolt or Ice Shards depending on what they are). Keep your models spaced out if you can to avoid Chain Lightning, but you may find that a struggle while protecting your archers, Mages and Hospitaliers. I dunno, give it or something similar a try.

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6) The Angel isn't a terrible idea, and remember that all ranges from ground casters and ranged attackers are Halved while in the air, and you are harder to hit. You'd have to worry about Rauthorous, but the Angel is one of only a couple models in the game that can take Rauthorous on as an equal.

 

 

I don't recall seeing the "half spellcasting range vs fliers" ever used in play, and the +DV for fliers vs ranged attacks is something I haven't seen since last edition. Is this new stuff that's being added? I would like to see a rules cite, if there is one.

 

-StV.

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Yes, with RC08 much changes. I'm also thinking of an possibility to invest in shooting, may be even to snipe down the queen, what is but impossible with magic.

 

The intention was to use fluff-wise melee/cleric heavy army. That was devastating against Razig (Holy Light) and would also do good against Overlords, using of bursts of speed to get handy charge at the rear of phalanx. There was Gideon instead of Ian, latter was taken only against spawn, all that with changing of speed bursts for blessings/lights. Ian had familiar, in fact.

 

This army proved almost helpless against flying units with magic, because we move in loose formation to avoid magic, but vulnerable to vell placed charge from above.

 

Thanks for recommendations, of course it's better to make army balanced in shooting,magic,melee. :rolleyes:

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6) The Angel isn't a terrible idea, and remember that all ranges from ground casters and ranged attackers are Halved while in the air, and you are harder to hit. You'd have to worry about Rauthorous, but the Angel is one of only a couple models in the game that can take Rauthorous on as an equal.

 

 

I don't recall seeing the "half spellcasting range vs fliers" ever used in play, and the +DV for fliers vs ranged attacks is something I haven't seen since last edition. Is this new stuff that's being added? I would like to see a rules cite, if there is one.

 

-StV.

"Models not in flight targeting flying Models (or vice

versa) have the range of their Ranged Attacks

and Spells reduced by half. "

 

Taken directly from RC07 . :rock:

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6) The Angel isn't a terrible idea, and remember that all ranges from ground casters and ranged attackers are Halved while in the air, and you are harder to hit. You'd have to worry about Rauthorous, but the Angel is one of only a couple models in the game that can take Rauthorous on as an equal.

 

 

I don't recall seeing the "half spellcasting range vs fliers" ever used in play, and the +DV for fliers vs ranged attacks is something I haven't seen since last edition. Is this new stuff that's being added? I would like to see a rules cite, if there is one.

 

-StV.

 

Brushmaster has made the appropriate Quote, it can also be found in RC08 Beta under Flyer SA, it has never changed.

 

Likewise the Ranged combat situational Modifiers on Page 64 of the rulebook (1st edition) remains 100% valid. -1 if Target is Flying Target, it has never changed or been dropped. The overlords book was the last time this table was printed, and it is still valid as no newer version exists.

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Yes, with RC08 much changes. I'm also thinking of an possibility to invest in shooting, may be even to snipe down the queen, what is but impossible with magic.

 

The intention was to use fluff-wise melee/cleric heavy army. That was devastating against Razig (Holy Light) and would also do good against Overlords, using of bursts of speed to get handy charge at the rear of phalanx. There was Gideon instead of Ian, latter was taken only against spawn, all that with changing of speed bursts for blessings/lights. Ian had familiar, in fact.

 

This army proved almost helpless against flying units with magic, because we move in loose formation to avoid magic, but vulnerable to vell placed charge from above.

 

Thanks for recommendations, of course it's better to make army balanced in shooting,magic,melee. :rolleyes:

 

 

Rock, Paper, Scissors

 

Sometimes you can get away with a melee heavy force, and do exceptional against certain factions and builds. As you suggerst you did against Razig, where the poor skelly Captain would have been in a bit of a nasty situation facing down all of your Smite(undead) and Holy Lights doing 2 damage.

 

In this case you're on the receiving end of an army better suited to take you out than you are to take it out. I happens; that isn't to say playing a theme army isn't fun, but for the most part try to include even just a few models that can offer you options of ranged attacks or spells. Likewise you'll always need melee grunts, even if you want to focus on ranged attacks.

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...snip...

 

Likewise the Ranged combat situational Modifiers on Page 64 of the rulebook (1st edition) remains 100% valid. -1 if Target is Flying Target, it has never changed or been dropped. The overlords book was the last time this table was printed, and it is still valid as no newer version exists.

I am pretty sure this is obsolete.

That chart was just a reference point for rules through out the book and that specific ranged attack modifier was listed under the 1.0 Flyer SA. Since that part of the ability is gone, so is that modifier.

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That could be the case, but no erratta has been included to amend the chart. (Once again, we need the ruleset redone for the current game)

 

I had assumed it was simply left as a Situational modifier, and as such why would it need to be included in the description of Flyer?

 

Just my thoughts, I don't think I've ever fielded a flyer, at least not in years, so it is to my advantage if it does indeed no longer apply. Still the basic concept makes sense, it should be harder to hit someone int he air than on the ground in my mind.

 

Anyway, worth bringing up and asking about.

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