Mercenaries

[spiritual_exorcist]

Which is of course why I've always used them in large troops, but I believe I may start to put them in smaller ones, or at least supplement maybe 2 large troops with several small ones. Maybe a bit of variety.

 

One thing to probably remember about the default list is that it really needs to be a combined arms list, if you take just a huge unit of gobbos or a huge unit of orcs you may be getting yourself into trouble.

 

Better to fill out the main portion of your list with Bull Orcs, Ogres, Bug Bears, or Gnolls, and then supplement the remainder of the troop with mob units (Orc Warriors, Spearmen, Goblins, Skeeters, and Goblin Rangers).

 

So my base troops might look like these now (assuming RC08):

 

Neek

8 Bull Orc Fighters

4 Orc Spearmen

3 Skeeters

4 Goblin Warriors

 

Neek

4 Ogres

4 Bull Hunters

7 Orc Warriors

5 Skeeters

 

Just my opinion of course, but I get more value out of those troops than if I stuck only to cheap Orcs and Goblins an maximize my model count.

 

I suggest model count and numbers can be important and can be focused on to gain an advantage, but so can many things.

[Qwyksilver]

Smaller numbers of elite troops will work well, because they have the higher MAV to not need as much support, and often have more DT and higher DV. Small troops of fodder types won't work nearly as well, because part of why they cost so little is they often lack the #MA, MAV and DT to last long. So you need to make sure they hit hard when they get there the first time. Small troops will give you more cards, but if you are facing Warmaster models, throwing small troop after small troop against them will just mean your chances of hitting are reduced but that Warmaster will just keep chewing through them. A combination often works well.

 

An ideal min/max build to get the most out of support bonuses would be bring a Leader with 3 Warrior types and 3 Reach Models so your 4 attacking models (Leader and 3 Warriors) receives a +6 if you send them after the same target.

 

With my Grand Reven builds, I usually brought a mob of Lesser Orc Warrior and Lesser Orc Spear led by Kakurgh since he has one of the bigger troop sizes with Mob Mentality.

 

Plus:

small troop with Ogg and a couple (3-4) beastriders for flanking.

-OR-

small shock troop of Dantral and some Zerkers

 

big troop of Varaug, Ombur, Gaaguk and BO warriors and Spear.

 

3 BO Archers with a sgt

 

For bigger point games, I would follow a similar trend but just expand.

Gurm + Yagun + Braugs

Neek + Goblin Rangers + Lunk

[vejlin]

hehe BO Warriors ...

[Brushmaster]

hehe BO Warriors ...

Haven't you seen their hairy armpits ...... peeyew ! Must account for atleast +1 of their MAV .

[spiritual_exorcist]

While I do like including Reach models for the extra bonus', I rarely maximise such bonus' because I find that a 1:1 reach to attacker ration isn't as effective as fielding more attackers with lower chances to hit, so I typically field a 2:1 attackers to reach models, unlike Qwyk. I think each idea has its merits. Qwyk's is fort sure the better option for taking down hefty models, but against soldiers I'd rather take more attacks, in fact my Reach models are usually in the thick of things in such cases.

[vejlin]

I find reach useful to break up adepts fighting in formation. If they have high DV and are standing in formation I will usually only be able to base each enemy model with two of my own (only +1 support). with Reach models I can get as high as +4 support (1 normal + 3 from Reach).

[Qwyksilver]

Yup, I use a combination. Having the ratios be as they are gives me a lot of flexibility to do what needs to be done at any given moment. I love using lots of combined arms. I rarely have troops of just a single model type for that reason.

 

This is making me very excited about the Gnolls and Bugbear coming to Reven because my grand reven lists will now have way more options.

 

Against the bigger guns, I want to make sure I get my hits in, so I either ensure a kill, or severely weaken the opponent when they counter, or I get another activation, or they have to spend spells to heal, etc.

 

Against soldiers, I will often use my Reach Models and First Strike to lend a hand and not use them solely for their Reach support.

[Forlorn Hope]

Yup, I use a combination. Having the ratios be as they are gives me a lot of flexibility to do what needs to be done at any given moment. I love using lots of combined arms. I rarely have troops of just a single model type for that reason.

 

That was another question I had about the game. For the list I am working on right now I don't have any shooters, but you are not the first person to refer to "combined arms." does this mean folks with and without reach, or do you also mean spells, shooters, and varieties of melee fighters?

 

In Mordheim it became clear pretty early to my group that, while really nice to look at on the board, shooters ultimately didn't work that well, and the way to win was to max out on melee fighters. Is this the case with Warlord as well?

[Stubbdog]

Forlorn,

 

The easy answer is, at this exact moment in time, yes. But the game developers are tryng to change that. Between the 2008 version of the datacars posted a few days ago, as well as The Rage Chronicles 2008 (that include the tweaks for 2008, duh...) will be getting eleased very shortly. In fact the public beta release is suppose to get posted here in the forums either today or tomorrow.

 

Included in the expected changes are some point reductions for ranged attack models casting models and their spells too. There has been lots of playtesting that show this helps the balance out a lot.

 

Now, one thing I do want to point out. These changes will help the situation, but they will not and are not meant to turn the tide so to speak and make ranged attacks preferable to melee. The original version of warlord had archers as the king of the field and the game was boring because of that. We want there to be archers and mages and such, and we think the changes that you will see in the next couple of days (including the datacards that have already been posted) will give lots of reasons for them to be onthe field. But at the same time we dont want them to be over powered.

 

So, hope that helps answer your question.

[Warwick]

I usually try to put in a few ranged troops. 3 crossbowmen in a troop really help out. They don't clear the field like old Warlord, but they certainly have a place on the battlefield. An entire unit of crossbows might be such a target for melee troops that they would die. I take three crossbows, spread them out, and they plink away and make up their points. Rarely do people divert too many models to kill them, so they keep firing until the end. I like them.

[spiritual_exorcist]

What you have to remember also is that each type of attack based combat action: Melee, ranged, and spells are resolved in groups. So it is to your benefit to include casters, ranged attackers and melee models all in the same troop.

 

Example A

 

Troop of 3 Crusader Knights attack an Warrior, they all make their attacks against the same DV (13)

 

Example B

 

Valandil + Ivy Archer + Crusader Knight attack an Ogre, Valandil casts an Ice Shards at MD 13, if he hits, the archer can take shots against DV 10 (rather than 13), and the Knight can run in and attack on possibly even less than that (Dv 9 or 8 maybe). Alot better than 13's.

 

So by bring spells and ranged attacks you can soften those models up that you want your melee models to attack in the same activation.

 

RC08 really seems to bring the Spellcasters and Ranged attacks back to a useful point value without getting too carried away and making them too dominant from what I can see, but I've only played a couple of games. I'm a player who never used to take casters and rarely ranged attackers, now I'm more than happy to bring both along in every troop.

[Brushmaster]

/snip/

I'm a player who never used to take casters and rarely ranged attackers, now I'm more than happy to bring both along in every troop.

/snip/

 

Don't I know it . I've been on the recieving end of SE's combined tactics and although they may not have won the games , they were effective .

[spiritual_exorcist]

Fine tuning as we speak, I'll win one soon Just rusty from not playing in like 6 months, and getting used to the new datacards!

[Qwyksilver]

All good things come to an end.

RC2007 is being replaced with RC2008.

 

Check out your new faction thread: Mercenaries 2008