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Reaperbryan

Reven

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They got nerfed in their relative potency I would probably agree. BUT, the big thing to look at is how dirt cheap they are, a combination of Lesser Orcs and Gobbos to provide Reach and Support bonus', along with Bull Orcs acting as the backbone of the force will probably be a fairly hefty combo. The generally small troop sizes, and high cost of alot of factions models (Dwarves, and Nefsokar for instace are extremely pricey), means you can bring overwhelming troops onto the board, and still have equal or greater numbers of cards in the deck for initiative. Mob Leader/+5 means alot more than it used to, epsecially when Neek, Kak'Urg, and Gakalath already have Mob Leader. Neek can field a unit of 16, which is a far cry from the 6-8 most Sergeants and Captains can lay down on the field.

 

 

Sure Bull Orcs alone are a great force, but they've lost a bit of their lustre with the effectiveness of Warcry Dropping when used by the average leader (CP 2 now, instead of CP 2+2). Enraged appears to have become alot more evil though assuming enraged and Frenzy can be combined (which might be debated).

 

Gaaguk can potentially Frenzy to 8 attacks, and Enrage back up to MAV 7, even at DV 1 he might not die due to his high number of wounds now, leaving the opportunity to slap him with a Cure 3 or 4 after combat is resolved. Varaug could Frenzy to 8 attacks at MAV 9 if enrage and Frenzy can be combined.

 

If they can't be combined it still leaves you many tactical options.

 

I'd Still prefer to see the 'Sapper' an adept, with non-unique status in the Goblin Force, the invoke action would work though.

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So you would say go for a more grande reven army and maybe slap some warcry's on ombur or whoever. I would prob put him in a troop with some bulls. The reason I was wondering about te tomahk was because the bulls become grunts unless the rules have changed. I personally LOVE the bulls and think the make a great threat on the board. I actually like the beastmen just for the low point cost and there nice attacks. But overall going with the grand reven may be the smarter choose I thinka t least.

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Bulls Fighters, Bull Archers, Bull Hunters = Grunt in Tomukh.

 

I think Warcry still is, and always was, best used cast by Ombur, the big question is, is it worth employing given that Ombur only has a 60% chance of getting the spell off? Probably considering it is only 10 points.

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The new warcry rules say that it gets everybody up icluding enimies I think. So the only time i really would cast a warcry would be to get guys up from combat. The only exceptin would be if I got mowed down by nranged attack and I wouldn't probably be close enough to even get a warcry to affect 2 models. Also can you give a sargent a castibng upgrade even if it doesnt have a cp to start with? That would make things eaiser but I dont know if that is legle? So even if warcry is most of the time not useful would you still take a tomahk list just cause the fighters, archers, and hunters all become grunts?

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I find it hard to justify overloading Ombur with Warcry when he's a Healer now anyway.

 

Still, it's good to keep Ombur (non unique) in your Archer group. Chances are you will hardly ever need to get more than one STunned Archer up in any activation. Still, one Warcry isn't a bad thing to have JUST in case.

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I suppose it is a trade off, one wound healed for free and automatically using Healer, or 2+ wounds healed with Warcry at a 10point cost and with a 60% chance of working (on Ombur's best track)...I really wish Warcry had been made "All Friendly Stunned models", then it would have been a little more worthwhile, as opposed to risking Warcrying enemy models back to their feet.

 

Given that Warcry is one of only a couple of Innate spells these days, I don't think that making Innate CPs 4 rather than 2 (in otherwords keeping the chance of Warcry's success the same) would have made a huge difference, and would have preserved some of the enjoyment of the ability, rather than neutering it a bit.

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I've always preferred the Bull Orc list in the past, and it still is appealing. However, with the huge advantages of beast riders and harpies, a grand reven list seems the way to go.

 

Castlebuilder

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Ok, having finally played a game, and taken the Reven into the field, I have to say that my original thought that Lesser Orcs and Goblins being excellent companions to the Bull Orcs feels like it holds pretty true. I think you'd be hard pressed to field a super-effective force of just Goblins, but they really compliment the other units available to the Great Reven list.

 

I'll start off by saying that I did lose the game I played, but at no point in the game did I feel like I was getting hammered, nor did I feel like I was involved in anything but a tight game the entire way through. It was also the first game I've played under the new rules so I think there was a learning curve in place. Here is what I fielded:

 

Troop 1:

Kak'Urg

7 Bull Orc Fighters

6 Orc Spearmen

3 Orc Warriors

 

Troop 2:

Neek

5 Bull Orc Hunters

6 Orc Warriors

3 Orc Spearmen

Troop 3:

Gakalath (I think, 20 point Orc Sergeant, maybe Gankorak?)

4 Goblin Warriors

3 Goblin Skeeters

 

40 models, 3 cards, in a 1000 point game

 

I can't say I was anything but impressed with all of the soldier models I fielded. The Bull Orcs looked dainty on paper, but their 4 wounds made them feel like they performed amply, despite what I percieved to be pretty low DVs, this was made up for with high MAVs, and the Hunters First Strike capability when used as a group of 2 or 3 (or when combined with the Orc Spearmen) really makes them feel like a unit well and truley built to take out heavy hitters.

 

The lesser Orc spearmen died in droves, many to incoming X-Bow fire, but the simple fact that they carried a First Strike attack, with MAV 5 made them a bargain at 18 points, whether they were directly attacking or bolstering the Bull Orcs with Reach. And while their Orc Warrior counterparts were not as nice offensively, they had a bit of staying power and were great to have around for the support bonus' and for added attacks.

 

The addition of cheapo lesser Orcs made me feel like I could use Bull Orc fighters, each supported by a couple of lesser orcs, as small little indepedent forces. I didn't need to keep all my Bull Orcs together and gang up on enemy models with them, because eash Bull Orc + Lesser Orc team could dish out enough to finish off an enemy (I didn't exploit this throughout the game, but it came into play a few times, and I think I can develop it further).

 

The Gobbos make for great screening units, blocking laneways, forcing attacking models to stop, or to make discipline checks to break away. And at 12 points, who can scoff at them giving a +1 support bonus and lending an extra attack if need be. Plus, they are an easy target, and while bound to die if attacked, every attack that hits them is one that doesn't go into your other units.

 

The Skeeters I wasn't all that impressed with, but they are dirt cheap compared to most ranged attackers, and they did dish out a few wounds, given that I was playing against Overlords with relatively high DVs I think they may have been better against other factions; ultimately there was still an annoyance factor about them.

 

I was always a huge fan of the Great Reven list int he previous game, but I was never really able to get it to work for me, I feel like the game is in a much better place now, and that none of the units are really short changed now, I'm happy to give up Enraged and Warcry now to field big units of 15+ when most of the troops on the opposing side are 4-8 models in size.

 

I think after 4 turns Brushmaster had about a 200 point lead on me, that signalled the 90 minute time limit (remembering it was my first game and we were discussing alot of things), and we played a further 5th turn just to see where the game would go, and I reeled the difference in to about 100 points. If we played it out I would have eventually lost, with him having a number of characters (Rogran, Balthon, and an Onyx Chevy) left that would have held up the remainder of my force while his unit of X-Bowmen took Critical shots at me. A loss on my part to be sure, but one that I don't mind taking in the least being that the game played was a blast.

 

Next game I'll turn around and take a faction or force that I can really beef up and play with around 12-15 models to see how the game compares (I've got a Nefsokar force I'd like to try out where every model is a Warmaster).

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Second game played, this time with the Bull Orcs, and I have to say I wasn't all that impressed. Enrage is nice, but the Bull Orcs really seemed quite vulnerable up agains the high class and expensive heroes in Brushmasters Crusader list (Damon, Danal, and the Angel). Once again I fielded soldier models over taking any real hero models, I suppose I might have to consider the notion of including at least some heavy hitters in my army lists.

 

I think I'll probably trend towards Great Reven from this point onwards. In the new version of the game their faction abilities seem alot more substantial (especially considering all the Fearsome models, and the fact that troop sizes have generally dropped substantially).

 

Going to have to consider ordering more Lesser Orcs...I might actually invest in a 9-pack of each, which would take me up to 30 in total, wouldn't hurt to have another 9 gobbos as well...god I have a problem.

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I have a couple questions. What is overriding in power the new Data Cards or the Rage Chronicles document? My thoughts are this and they may have been discussed before the forum was reloaded.

 

The document states we now have adept trolls with Uru, which I love as part of the Bull Orc list but mentions neither Gurm or Braug aka Ogre grunt.

 

I am figuring that the troll adept/uru idea was traded out for the Ogre adept/ Captain Gurm one.

 

As of now what is the status of trolls/Uru and ogres and are either or in the Bull Ork list?

 

I like some of the changes and at first glance they probably leveled the field a little and helped some armies a lot. I think the elves will benifit. I play about the same amount of time between both Reven and Dwarfs and think both lost more than they gained, although I think the Dwarfs were nerfed harder. Dwarfs are way expensive, bear cav is good and burrowing is a gimmick that won't be helpful at movement 4. Some of the grunts are as much as elites, Freya cost as much as a shieldmaiden, and a maiden with a halberd is as much as a Warlord.

 

Nerfing warcry makes it almost unuseable most of the time unless you are targeting a really high point model and don't care if an enemy model or two get back up. The goblins used to have above average archers, now they stink. The best goblins Short Fangs, Stingers and Wormbait, gone. Short fangs used to hit as hard as a Bull Hunter, Hunters now hit at 7, the new goblins could use a model that hits at 7. Wormbait were useful because you could burrow a fire keg into the middle of the enemy.

 

The new Warlord is cool he is what Kiakara should have always been but in Mage form, and again she was given no fighting worth and is relegated to being an expensive cleric with an average cp, which might have been okay had they not nerfed Warcry. She is definately second class compaired to Dwarf cleric/warlord or even the Dwarf cleric/captain.

 

I think enrage & Frenzy combined will be powerful. I see a lot of berserkers and Omburs to heal them up on the battlefield. Multiple beastriders and giants will help the goblin list.

 

I think I will play a berserker heavy bull list next Tuesday and a grand list on Thursday.

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I played a 1500 point bull list with a mix of fighters, hunters, beserkers and achers. I had Varagh, Narg, Kharg with two Omburs and a Lurgh.

 

My opponent had a Grand Reven list with the gobin warord and Yagun Oog and several ogres. He also had a hill giant, skeeters and goblin warriors.

 

He was definately laying the smackdown on me with the mages getting over twenty wounds with Ice Storm, Chain lightning, Firestorm and another lightening spell that was 12" long.

 

But the key was support, first strike and a nasty combo of Aspect of the Hunter, Frenzy, Enrage and greater magical weapon.

 

I lost about 25%, he lost everything but the Warlord and a few goblins.

 

Lurgh is awesome. Lock someone in place and on the next activation he comes up from behind, it was like mav 10. Point blank critical shot is nasty too. My Warlord was hitting at like 14, five or six times with Hunter, Frenzy, Enrage and greater magical weapon, support and reach support.

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I played this army 2 weeks ago. It's a 1500 point army that takes advantage of the goblin sub-faction ability "You be lead, no you be lead" along with the Hill Giant being non unique in the goblin sub-list. Unfortunately, it lost against Razig because of the initiative deck. All in all it was a fun game and there is nothing like seeing the look on an opponents face when you place 4 hill giants on the board!

 

Troop 1

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

Troop 2

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

Troop 3

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

Troop 4

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

Troop 5

Goblin Warrior 4

 

Troop 6

Hill Giant

 

Troop 7

Hill Giant

 

Troop 8

Hill Giant

 

Troop 9

Hill Giant

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What if you swapped out a Cure or two for a Teleport? Get those giants in there quick!

 

PS

I was thinking about that, but the old rule of thumb is never send in a model alone. Even though the giants are melee demi-gods, I have a hunch if only 1 or two are in melee before the other two arrive they'll get ganged up and go down as fast as they did in the old rules. But who says experimentation is wrong?

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No actually they don't go down nearly as quickly as they did in the old rules. The +3 support cap plus their higher DV makes the Hill Giant very, very nasty. If you are facing a strong melee hero with support and reach support you will get mauled but its often worth it to get him to bunch up his forces all nice for some AOE spells.

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