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Reaperbryan

Reven

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No actually they don't go down nearly as quickly as they did in the old rules. The +3 support cap plus their higher DV makes the Hill Giant very, very nasty. If you are facing a strong melee hero with support and reach support you will get mauled but its often worth it to get him to bunch up his forces all nice for some AOE spells.

 

Narg with GMW, Enrage, Frenzy and Aspect and a plus 4 support brought him down in the first round of combat. The big guy ended up taking about eighty points of models before his death.

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No actually they don't go down nearly as quickly as they did in the old rules. The +3 support cap plus their higher DV makes the Hill Giant very, very nasty. If you are facing a strong melee hero with support and reach support you will get mauled but its often worth it to get him to bunch up his forces all nice for some AOE spells.

 

Narg with GMW, Enrage, Frenzy and Aspect and a plus 4 support brought him down in the first round of combat. The big guy ended up taking about eighty points of models before his death.

 

Isn't Narg alone worth over 100 points and certain to be dropped in that situation?

 

PS

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Narg with GMW, Enrage, Frenzy and Aspect and a plus 4 support brought him down in the first round of combat. The big guy ended up taking about eighty points of models before his death.

 

With this being said you probably had about 221 points fighting the hill giant (Narg at 107 and 3 Bull Orc Fighters at 114) that is only 10 points less than the hill giant, which should hopefully take him down. Due to the circumstances of enraging and using frenzy Narg's DV had to be extremely low. When the hill giant did his defensive strikes (if executed) he could have frenzied to 8 attacks with 6 MAV. This would have definitely taken down Narg and severely hurt a bull orc fighter. All-in-all the hill giant took on 221 points before his downfall and would've come close to taking out 145 points in return.

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He's worth 107 points (77+30), plus the 5 point spell cast on him.

 

It is impossible for Narg to kill a Hill Giant in a single round by himself.

 

Narg can do a maximum of 6 attacks, which drops his MAV from 6 to 3.

+4 support = 7 MAV

+2 GMW = 9 MAV

+1 Aspect = 10 MAV

 

At this point, you only have a 60/40 chance of hitting the Hill Giant who has a DV 15.

 

If you are shooting for auto hits, you have to increase your MAV by another 4, which gives you MAV 14, but a DV of 3, which the Giant can auto hit. If he ups his Frenzy to max, he's making 8 attacks at MAV 6, which will kill Narg, and leave another Bull Orc on it's last track with fairly good odds of success, which is adding another 30-ish points to the tally. (3/4 of 38 points)

 

You still need to cause the Hill Giant 2 more tracks of damage with your supporting Models to Stun him.

 

And just to remind you, Hill Giant has First Strike, so Narg is now at DV 2, and MAV 13 as a maximum, which is not even auto hit. Narg is still dead, and now you have to hope you don't roll a 1 or 2 in those 6 attacks, which odds are, you'll roll at least one of them.

 

And this is also presuming the Hill Giant does nothing before he gets into combat.

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And just to remind you, Hill Giant has First Strike

 

As a reminder, you cannot do First Strike and Frenzy at the same time. In this case, Frenzy is clearly the better deal.

 

Overall tho, getting ganged up on by Bull Orcs shouldn't be a picnic. :lol:

 

PS

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And just to remind you, Hill Giant has First Strike

 

As a reminder, you cannot do First Strike and Frenzy at the same time. In this case, Frenzy is clearly the better deal.

 

Overall tho, getting ganged up on by Bull Orcs shouldn't be a picnic. :lol:

 

PS

 

Oh pish posh, you and your rules Pete :poke:

See that's what I get for not playing my Reven as often.

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I played this army 2 weeks ago. It's a 1500 point army that takes advantage of the goblin sub-faction ability "You be lead, no you be lead" along with the Hill Giant being non unique in the goblin sub-list.

 

Troop 1

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

"You Be Leader, No YOU Be Leader" requires one model to be the leader and at least 4 other models of the same type in the troop. You need at least 5 Goblin Warriors in each of your troops.

 

Rich

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First off, I'd like to say my post was not that Narg alone could, one on one, defeat a giant. It was that it was not hard to bring down the giant in a turn. This particular giant was given the bum's rush very quickly and very brutally by five models.

 

This was the situation... pretty much. I can barely remember yesterday much less a turn in a game three days ago. And, Millerthyme was about ten feet away and it was his model of the giant that my opponent was using.

 

Narg had GMA which I forgot to mention so he had a dv of 13, and GMW MAV 8 with 3 MA. Narg then got Aspect MAV 11 with three.

 

Both hunters, Narg and the 2 Berserkers engaged. Two Hunters in the rear with firststrike equalled 2 hits. The Berserkers got 6 hits at 9, the hunters got 2 at 11.

 

With the +3 support Narg was already a 14, I frenzied 1 and was 13 at 4. The giant frenzied and defensive struck Narg and two orcs. The giant may have had one wound left, Idon't recall. If he did he must have attacked Narg and went down from a Warmaster blast of 3 more shots. I can't recall all the details as it didn't seem that important at the time. At the end of the activation there was a giant that got the old coup de gras the next activation, Narg got healed by Ombur next round, and two dead orks.

 

In the end, when my opponent conceded, I had lost fewer models which were only soldiers and was about to lose warlord. I killed several six or so ogres, the giant, a mage and a couple goblins. The Cyclops Warlord had not made it into combat yet, but was alone, cut off from his goblin support. I'd have mopped the gobins in a turn, lost Narg but had a lot of bulls on the table.

 

I always take at least two heavy hitting models with GMA + GMW and Aspects on two or three Omburs. They become monster powered with support. My other monster was the warlord with the bonesplitter.

 

I used the same army two nights later against Darkspawn. We ran out of time but I was beginning to wear him down.

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Like I said, a decked out melee hero with support will be one of the few things that can take the new hill giant down. In this case it was a decked out hero with support with spell support. Unlike the old giant who could be pulled down under a mass of soldiers you are much safer using a t-port to toss him into a group to have fun with not nearly the risk that it used to be. It looks like you had a couple of lucky first strike attacks to the rear that helped drop the giant's DV and that made it much more likely that you could take the big guy down. All in all the giant isn't nearly as weak against the mobs as he was.

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Like I said, a decked out melee hero with support will be one of the few things that can take the new hill giant down. In this case it was a decked out hero with support with spell support. Unlike the old giant who could be pulled down under a mass of soldiers you are much safer using a t-port to toss him into a group to have fun with not nearly the risk that it used to be. It looks like you had a couple of lucky first strike attacks to the rear that helped drop the giant's DV and that made it much more likely that you could take the big guy down. All in all the giant isn't nearly as weak against the mobs as he was.

 

I wasn't disagreeing, it just so happened the day you posted this I happened to have done exactly what you were saying. I think big models will always be vunerable because they are attension grabbers and opponents want them off the board.

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Troop 1

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

THat's an aweful lot of points put into Cure 3's that only have a 50/50 chance of working. From my perspective it is probably better to field more Gobbos, and possibly another Gonda and use the Gonda's 'Healer' ability instead of trying to cast. 240 points is 20 more goblins on the table.

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Troop 1

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

THat's an aweful lot of points put into Cure 3's that only have a 50/50 chance of working. From my perspective it is probably better to field more Gobbos, and possibly another Gonda and use the Gonda's 'Healer' ability instead of trying to cast. 240 points is 20 more goblins on the table.

 

I think the point of the army is multiple giants with multiple spells to heal them. The goblins are only there because he has to have them to field the giants. In all honesty until the goblins get reach or a +6 support and/or a powerful grunt they will be pretty useless as core fighters.

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I understand that, but what is the point of spending 240 points of spells that heal 3 damage 50% of the time (when the Gonda's on on their best track), when you can several more troops of Goblins on the board, and bring more Gonda's to use strictly as 'Healers'.

 

Also, in the above list you don't need Golbins to be great core fighters, all you need them there is to mop up the models the Hill Giants fail to wound, and to tie up and block important models from attacking your Giants until you are ready to face them.

 

I can easily tie up a Warlord by surrounding them, but not basing them, with Goblins, allowing such a model to only kill a Golbin each turn, while my Hill Giants rip apart other models in the oppossing army. Goblins make great speed bumos, and having an extra dozen on the board along with a couple more GOnda's would make for a better lis tin my opinion.

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I understand that, but what is the point of spending 240 points of spells that heal 3 damage 50% of the time (when the Gonda's on on their best track), when you can several more troops of Goblins on the board, and bring more Gonda's to use strictly as 'Healers'.

 

Also, in the above list you don't need Golbins to be great core fighters, all you need them there is to mop up the models the Hill Giants fail to wound, and to tie up and block important models from attacking your Giants until you are ready to face them.

 

I can easily tie up a Warlord by surrounding them, but not basing them, with Goblins, allowing such a model to only kill a Golbin each turn, while my Hill Giants rip apart other models in the oppossing army. Goblins make great speed bumos, and having an extra dozen on the board along with a couple more GOnda's would make for a better lis tin my opinion.

 

I agree goblins have their use as speed bumps, but generally a Warlord or hero is surrounded by a troop, which unless they never get initiative first, they will walk over the goblins. Your example also works in reverse. A handful of soldiers can ultimately stop a goblin hordes advance. A few Shieldmaidens could hold a hundred goblins at bay. Goblins are hitting at six with support and less if the Shieldmaidens are in a tight formation. At best a goblin is hitting at MAV 6, 2 or 3 times a turn with an attack and defensive strike. Shieldmaidens are hitting with a MAV of 5, as high as 11 with support and they will hit 3 times and have warmaster. They have +4 DV and three or four more wounds.

 

I guess Gonda getting possibly three auto heals over three rounds is good. But, IMO I'd rather have chance at getting 3 or 6 or 0 with 1 auto heal. The reason is that when the giant goes down, he may do it in a round or two and then a single heal won't be of much more value than a missed Cure3. But a Cure3 or two could change the game.

 

I personally would never play this list. I'd get rid of a giant and one troop and all the clerics but one. I'd add the Warlord with beastriders and a couple harpies and a GF Greka CP9.

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Troop 1

Goblin Warrior 3

Gonda, Goblin Cleric Cure 3 x2

 

THat's an aweful lot of points put into Cure 3's that only have a 50/50 chance of working. From my perspective it is probably better to field more Gobbos, and possibly another Gonda and use the Gonda's 'Healer' ability instead of trying to cast. 240 points is 20 more goblins on the table.

 

I was the one MillerTyme tried that army out against. Normally I would completely agree with you on the spells... But he succeeded every single casting, except 2. One was because I used Counter Spell (he would have made it otherwise) the other he rolled poorly.

In the last few turns of the game when he was getting the last few spells off, I would yell out in disbelief with every single casting roll.

 

It was like fighting a dozen freaking hill giants... and you can imagine how scary that is :)

 

Regardless of how effective everyone thinks that army is, it was one of the most fun armies I've played against in a long time. It's also an army that would have been a complete waste before the revision. It's funny when I would take down a hill giant after 3 rounds of brutal combat then my champion grunts would get run down by a goblin while they were wounded lol.

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