Model Substitution

[Cerridwyn1st]

A while back, I mentioned to Bryan I'd like to do an "all chick" elf army. My apologies, Bryan, but over two years later I still don't have my Elven Chick Force. I could probably field an all female unit from my painted minis, but it's not the same thing.

 

Anyway, now I'd like to do something different, and I'm wondering just how creative you can get and still be legal.

 

Would the following be legal:

Conversion 1: re-sculpt an existing model and assign stats you wish to use as its base.

 

Conversion 2: A model with some Reaper parts and some from another manufacturer? I have a Centaur Archer conversion in the works with a Reaper model for the human torso part and an Iron Mountain horse body.

 

Scratch-built: Few, if any, parts from a manufacturer. Might have a Reaper armature as a base, but might not.

 

I'd like to do an Woodland Defenders unit using stats for Elves. It would have creatures like fairies, centaurs, dryads, and satyrs as stand-ins for normal Elf troops. Centaur Archers would be pretty obvious models to use, as would Mossbeard and the Giant Eagle. But I'm also planning on converting the female demon to a female satyr and using the stats for Selwyn, Vale Captain. Making young treants and using the stats for Vale Longthorns. Using a Fairy as a Page.

 

So, how much of this would be legal?

[wildbill]

A while back, I mentioned to Bryan I'd like to do an "all chick" elf army. My apologies, Bryan, but over two years later I still don't have my Elven Chick Force. I could probably field an all female unit from my painted minis, but it's not the same thing.

 

Anyway, now I'd like to do something different, and I'm wondering just how creative you can get and still be legal.

 

Would the following be legal:

Conversion 1: re-sculpt an existing model and assign stats you wish to use as its base.

 

Conversion 2: A model with some Reaper parts and some from another manufacturer? I have a Centaur Archer conversion in the works with a Reaper model for the human torso part and an Iron Mountain horse body.

 

Scratch-built: Few, if any, parts from a manufacturer. Might have a Reaper armature as a base, but might not.

 

I'd like to do an Woodland Defenders unit using stats for Elves. It would have creatures like fairies, centaurs, dryads, and satyrs as stand-ins for normal Elf troops. Centaur Archers would be pretty obvious models to use, as would Mossbeard and the Giant Eagle. But I'm also planning on converting the female demon to a female satyr and using the stats for Selwyn, Vale Captain. Making young treants and using the stats for Vale Longthorns. Using a Fairy as a Page.

 

So, how much of this would be legal?

 

At the big 3 tournaments of the year that Reaper sponsors, maybe Conversion 1 would be legal. Scratch-built is only if the model does not currently exist.

 

With that said, what flies at a local tournament is a totally different story. I've had players with Clan War models and GW models and I don't care. So long as they look like what they represent, are easily identifiable, and are on the proper base size, it's all good. So, for local tournaments, talk to the person that is organizing the event and they should be cool with it.

 

Wild Bill

[Cerridwyn1st]

Uh, Bill, I'd be the one organizing the local tournament, so as long as I say it's cool, it's cool.

 

Actually, I'm looking for an official answer. I would like to prepare a troop for the GenCon Painting Contest, and I want to make sure that what I want to do is legal. I'd hate to put forth a lot of effort to be told, "looks cool, but it's disqualified."

 

I hope the official answer is a little more broad. For one thing, I'd like to use generic heads (they can be ordered by themselves) on Beastman Woodcutter bodies for male satyrs. Just sculpt on a beard and I'd be golden. It would be a shame to chop heads off otherwise useful models for the same purpose, not to mention darned expensive.

[wildbill]

Uh, Bill, I'd be the one organizing the local tournament, so as long as I say it's cool, it's cool.

 

 

I knew that. I was just testing you.

 

Really.

 

Testing.

 

Honestly.

 

 

Wild Bill

[rgtriplec]

Somewhere there is an official post about conversion and proxy. I believe the conversion rule is that it has to be all Reaper and the torso has to be from the figure you are using the stats for. So, I don't think there is a way to make an official female centaur, as there is no torso for a female centaur. You could take a centaurs torso and combine it with a Celestial Lion and use it as a centaur, but I'm almost positive the torso is what must be identifyable and the stats are that of the torso. I guess you could sculpt some breasts for the centaur torso but she would be quite butch.

 

I'll look for the rules.

[rgtriplec]

Here is what I could find, but I was thinking you could probably do your centaurs because the horse half has a torso and legs, which would make it official to use.

 

 

Official Minis and Conversions from Aug. Erratta

 

Q: Does converting an "official" Warlord mini ban it from "official" play (i.e. Gen Con, etc.)? There are 1-2 sculpts I dearly want to tweak just a little, and while it's unlikely I'll be able to attend many "big" cons where it matters, I'd just like to know for my own information.

 

A: "Conversions are allowed as long as the event judge is able to identify the legs and upper body/torso of the base model. The base model must be a legal model for the game. Official Proxy rule applies.

 

 

Official Proxy Rules.

 

1) Official models that are unpainted, primed, or painted a single color are acceptable and allowed for use in any official event.

2) Substitute models from outside manufacturers are not acceptable and are not allowed for use in any official event.

3) Generic substitutions from any Reaper lines are allowed for use as Non-Unique models in any official event.

4) A particular generic substitute model type can only be used to represent a single type of model and/or data card in any official event.

5) A generic substitute model must be on the same size base the model it is substituting for would be on in any official event.

[shakhak]

Somewhere there is an official post about conversion and proxy. I believe the conversion rule is that it has to be all Reaper and the torso has to be from the figure you are using the stats for. So, I don't think there is a way to make an official female centaur, as there is no torso for a female centaur. You could take a centaurs torso and combine it with a Celestial Lion and use it as a centaur, but I'm almost positive the torso is what must be identifyable and the stats are that of the torso. I guess you could sculpt some breasts for the centaur torso but she would be quite butch.

 

I'll look for the rules.

The rules are stickied on the Warlord General Discussion page.

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25000

 

1) Official models that are unpainted, primed, or painted a single color are acceptable and allowed for use in any official event.

2) Substitute models from outside manufacturers are not acceptable and are not allowed for use in any official event.

3) Generic substitutions from any Reaper lines are allowed for use as Non-Unique models in any official event.

4) A particular generic substitute model type can only be used to represent a single type of model and/or data card in any official event.

5) A generic substitute model must be on the same size base the model it is substituting for would be on in any official event.

 

There's nothing specific about the Torso's or modding specifically at all. As long as you mod it with pieces from other Reaper minis, you should be ok.

I'm also sure that as long as most of the mini is Reaper than no matter what you put on it, an event organizer wouldn't stop anyone from using the mini. And I use most very losely.

 

Edit: I stand corrected.

 

I still think that if you're moding the model with another official model(both models would be official under the Proxy rules) it would be completely allowed.

 

Edit 2:

The Errata you posted is in reference to Proxy rules that no longer exist. The current proxy rules were Effective 1/22/2007. That Errata is from August, which hasn't came this year.

[rgtriplec]

There's nothing specific about the Torso's or modding specifically at all. As long as you mod it with pieces from other Reaper minis, you should be ok.

I'm also sure that as long as most of the mini is Reaper than no matter what you put on it, an event organizer wouldn't stop anyone from using the mini. And I use most very losely.

 

Edit: I stand corrected.

 

I still think that if you're moding the model with another official model(both models would be official under the Proxy rules) it would be completely allowed.

 

Edit 2:

The Errata you posted is in reference to Proxy rules that no longer exist. The current proxy rules were Effective 1/22/2007. That Errata is from August, which hasn't came this year.

 

 

Actually the proxy rules I posted are the official up to date ones from 1/22/07. The August errata is not about proxy it is about "conversion" and I don't believe the conversion rules have changed. i may be wrong because I haven't been around the boards since February.

 

As far as conversion goes, I think Cerridwyn1st wants a GenCon/ReaperCon official answer. I think they would be pretty strict to the rules there. I think my earlier answer is probably correct, it would be officially legal to use the entire horse part of a centaur and put any Reaper mini of your choice as the humanoid part and it still be a centaur, due to the horse having a torso and legs.

[anvil]

Uh, Bill, I'd be the one organizing the local tournament, so as long as I say it's cool, it's cool.

 

You're running a tourny? Cool, When? I think it's time I dusted off the forces of Kheled Zharam and get a little payback on your stinkin' elfs. Arrgh!