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Pre-Painted Plastics vs Metal and related Debate


Sergei
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I'm with ya on the campfire!! What a great game aid that would be. We have a whole thread on townsfolk as well. My friend and GM spends money on the plastics like you do, buying CASES of plastics. He's got them in the thousands. I think Reaper would do well to listen to people like you who are the target market.

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I'm with ya on the campfire!! What a great game aid that would be. We have a whole thread on townsfolk as well. My friend and GM spends money on the plastics like you do, buying CASES of plastics. He's got them in the thousands. I think Reaper would do well to listen to people like you who are the target market.

 

Yeah I was buying anywhere from 2 - 4 cases with each release and then STILL having to buy extra off ebay just to meet my 'needs'. I have supplemented my spending by selling junk rares and bulk commons (I really didn't need 53 giant frogs); but still...

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We do actually make a campfire set, in metal (Adventuring Accessories II, Dark Heaven item number 2963). Scenic bits have sadly never been great sellers so I have no idea if we will consider going plastic with some of it. But I wanted you to know that we *do* make a campfire as one of the bits in that item number. :;):

 

--Anne--who let *her* into this topic?? :;):

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We do actually make a campfire set, in metal (Adventuring Accessories II, Dark Heaven item number 2963). Scenic bits have sadly never been great sellers so I have no idea if we will consider going plastic with some of it. But I wanted you to know that we *do* make a campfire as one of the bits in that item number. :;):

 

--Anne--who let *her* into this topic?? :;):

I am probably the same type of GM or buyer as katerek, but for different reasons. I know reaper makes an unpainted fire place in metal, but that's the thing it is in unpainted metal.

 

I don't have the time nor desire to paint the metal monsters and townsfolk i have bought from Reaper and other places. If i can't be bothered to paint something that gets used in many games, a camp fire that might get used once a month, will never get painted so i'm not going to spend my money on something like that in the first place. While it would be a wonderfull thing to have, to me my time spent on other things is more important than the money. I make a good living, have a bit of disposable income and would rather get pre-painted stuff than paint it, i don't find that part of the hobby fun, i'm a gamer not a painter. If that campire were painted and ready to go, i'd most likely buy it becuase once it's mine its done, the investment money out weights the time it would take to paint it.

 

I'd love to get more scenic bits for my games, and slowly am, but there are few choices for things out there that are painted, there are a number of unpainted campfire type sources out there, and i didn't buy any of them either, nor many of the other sceneic things like tables and chairs, cause i don't like to paint, if i have to do it it's a big knock against the product for me, i'd rather go with out, or go with a bit of card stock paper, than spend the time painting. The scenic itenm i have purchased were Mage Knight and Dwarven Forge. Cause they were cheap and/or painted.

 

I have grabbed singles of Mage Knight figures (and some of the other Wiz Kids lines) before D&D Minis came out becuase they were painted and it took less work to pop them off the base than to paint them. I still do it with some of the Hero stuff becuase they are modern, and there aren't a lot of painted modern out there so it's no other choice, i have other choices now for Fantasy.

 

I'd rather spend the money i have then the time, becuase my time is more limited than the $, not saying everyone out there is that way, but there are a bunch of use who look at the things like the campsite and go "cool, just wish it were painted", and say that for so many things, and then go spend the money on something else ready to go, or not at all. I'm not saying the campfire will be a sure seller. But i purchased the Dwarven Forge treasure piles over the various Treasure Hoards Reaper sells becuase i can just buy it and be done. While i'd love the boots cloak, from 2540 Magic Treasure 1, and some of the other items, but i'm not going to paint them so i don't buy them

 

If your really looking to tap the non painter market it will be dealing with a different mindset than i suspect many of your previous core consumers are. Many of them don't give a fig if the figures are expert or pro painted. We just want something that looks ok. The flack that mongoose recived i thought was way over done. I thought those figures looked fine, and if they didn't cost $5 a pop i'd buy them. I have almost bought some of the EFTF Brits and the MEA becuase they are painted and i'd be done with it, the cost has kept me away each time in the end, cause i don't "need" them, i just want them. And there are other things i need first for my gamming needs. IF the ywere cheaper they would be in the need.

 

So far the Reaper line more than qualifies for need in price, but not need in the figures i want, there may be 1 or 2, but i am just waiting for the next set to be what i need... So i am watching and waiting

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We do actually make a campfire set, in metal (Adventuring Accessories II, Dark Heaven item number 2963). Scenic bits have sadly never been great sellers so I have no idea if we will consider going plastic with some of it. But I wanted you to know that we *do* make a campfire as one of the bits in that item number. :;):

 

--Anne--who let *her* into this topic?? :;):

 

Like others, I suspect there are certain types of figs that will do better as a PPM than they would as unpainted metal. Townsfolk and scenery bits among them.

 

What I would hope Reaper will do is try and figure out a way to compare the differences between the unpainted metal and the prepainted plastics to help with the assessment. For example, if you find that your prepainted skeletons/goblins/etc sell better than the unpainted army pack of skeletons/goblins/etc ever did, that could be a hint to try one of your lesser selling metal packs as a PPM.

 

In otherwords, you probably know your market better than we do, but do realize that the plastics are going to be reaching a slightly different market and not everything you've learned with the unpainted metals will necessarily be true.

 

 

The next 2 sets of Legendary Encounters Releases will include Goblins, Zombies, A Gnoll, An Ettin, A Demoness, Kobolds, A Bathalian, Ghosts, A Succubus, and A Giant Worm. Would those be helpful?

 

Mmmmm - Goblins and Kobolds!

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As a Lifetime Gamer enthusiast and miniature painter I'm very glad to hear that Reaper will continue to produce unpainted metal miniatures at the same rate and level of detail...as I'm a huge Reaper Mini fan.

 

Concerning the new painted line: I like to paint my own miniatures, I have about 400+ painted here at home...however, I still look forward to seeing and getting these new figs. Heck I've got Orcs and Skeletons coming out of my ears, but I just can't help myself, I will still collect a bunch of painted Reaper Orcs and Skeletons for sure. (+the other stuff) I just love miniatures and am confident that Reaper will do a good job with these.

 

from a business standpoint, I hope that this will stimulate and encourage more new people to delve into the world of miniature gaming. let's be optimistic.

 

I Look forward to adding these new creatures to my dungeon gaming!

 

Stefan Pokorny (Founder/CEO-Dwarven Forge)

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I Look forward to adding these new creatures to my dungeon gaming!

 

Stefan Pokorny (Founder/CEO-Dwarven Forge)

Welcome to the group Stefan. It's an honor to have the ultimate dungeon builder among us!

 

Castlebuilder

 

Thanks:)

 

Looking forward to seeing pics too....

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and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along?

 

Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys.

Now I'm all for this kid playing with his buds who have likewise purchased instant armies but I would never have started playing Warlord if it had involved prepainted plastics and I will not be forced into doing so now, whether they are in my army or an opponent's.

 

So, based on this logic, it doesn't matter if the game is horrible or great, it depends on whether you get to paint your own models?

 

That doesn't make sense.

 

I'm a modeler and painter, but I think it would be great to allow these things into the events. Plus, it's Reaper's own policy. If you like Reaper so much, you would think that you would support their proxy rules.

 

Albeit, feel free to keep your house rules at home. If I'm at a game store, and I approach some nice folks to ask them for a game and I pull out my plastic army and get yelled at, then you become the biggest jack axx in the world in my view point.

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I for one totally support plastics as proxies in Warlord. If a kid is able to take his birthday money and buy a set of rules and an army, then that is a wonderful thing. That's one less kid that will be spending his money on videogames and baggy pants. Moreso, that is one MORE kid that might be encouraged to stick with the hobby and eventually save up some money, buy some paints and pewter and learn to paint.

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Plus when people find out you can buy the raw pewter and actually paint it however you want they might start replacing the plastics with their own, very cool, custom painted minis.

 

Think so? Think they'll bother when they buy prepainted? People, especially kids, want the easy way out. They won't start painting expensive pewter when they buy a cheap plastic piece already done.

 

Kid: I could spend $5 on a metal mini, plus paints, brushes, etc., and spend an afternoon painting it, OR I could spend $1.50, get one all ready to go, and have the afternoon left over to play video games and money to buy more stuff later. Gee, wonder what I'll pick?

 

If anything, this will drive people away from painting minis. Remember how popular plastic model kits like Monogram used to be? Nowadays that isn't instant enough gratification. Look at what's happened to AD&D. First it became easy, then with 3.5, even more challenge went away, and it became a race to see who could level the fastest with the best feats. It isn't even the same game any more. The sad thing is a lot of people have never built a plastic model or played a challenging RP game.

 

I can empathize with those who don't want to play against plastic. Part of the lure of the game is to field your own work, and admire the work of others. What's to admire in a pre-painted piece you could buy yourself for the price of a candy bar? If they wanted to play a game that consisted solely of rules and no painting talent, they would have picked up D&D minis.

 

I can see why Reaper is doing this, but it's going to diminish the lure of pewter.

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If you're looking at buying these for wargaming and you're playing fantasy games crappy rules aren't going to be any more fun to play with meticulously painted minis. Now, well painted armies enhance the visual aspect, but in my mind it's about the rules. Rules that suck are rules that suck, and the game is what's important to me. So I say make the prepainted plastics. If they pick up painting that's cool, if not, that's cool too.

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Think so? Think they'll bother when they buy prepainted? People, especially kids, want the easy way out. They won't start painting expensive pewter when they buy a cheap plastic piece already done.

 

Kid: I could spend $5 on a metal mini, plus paints, brushes, etc., and spend an afternoon painting it, OR I could spend $1.50, get one all ready to go, and have the afternoon left over to play video games and money to buy more stuff later. Gee, wonder what I'll pick?

 

If anything, this will drive people away from painting minis.

 

Respectfully, and happily, I must disagree. ::):

 

It was far, far back in this thread, but I'll do a brief recap, from the perspective of someone who is intimately involved in the hobby of miniatures painting. ::): Every year at the conventions I see:

 

New faces in my painting classes

More *kids* in my painting classes who are honestly looking to learn how to paint, or

paint better, and who are, most importantly, *enjoying* painting

More and more painting classes needed at conventions because of demand

More and more painting classes and painting events selling out

Paint and paint kits selling like crazy

More and more gamers who have progressed from playing the games to enjoying the

painting hobby for its own sake

 

Maybe the miniatures gaming side will see a weakening of painted stuff, assuming that people can find the models they need to represent stuff in their armies. But really I think that the painting hobby itself will come away strengthened by this. Why? Simple self-experience. I used to paint models for D&D, Warhammer, Warlord, etc., but I found that having to churn out so many models, on a deadline, in my spare time, was not enjoyable to me. Give me plastic grunts, though, and--what? You mean I have the time to do a better job on my warlord and this cool new dragon for my army because I don't have to paint forty-seven grunt warrior dudes? AWESOME!

 

Change is inevitable, sure. But the painting hobby has never been stronger. I personally believe that the human tendency toward instant gratification is balanced by a need to create something enjoyable and of lasting value. :;):

 

--Anne ::D:

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