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Sergei

Pre-Painted Plastics vs Metal and related Debate

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You're lucky, Anne. I gotta move to Texas. Last convention I attended as one of the resident painters (in NH, I admit... not exactly a hub of gaming activity), I had two people -- a very lovely couple, I'll grant you -- sign up for a WHOLE WEEKEND of my classes... Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And only two or three folks wander in. :down:

 

Most of the time, it felt like the painting tables were where the grown-up gamers dumped their children for free day-care. :angry: I don't know how poor Cher can stand it at her Black Lightning events.

 

Anyhow... From what I've seen in my area in terms of honest painting interest... most folks will jump on pre-painted minis and ignore unpainted metal. Instant gratification... maybe. Likely, even. But more likely, given what I've seen happening to game stores due to the economy... people don't have the money for miniatures, paint, brushes, and so forth. Cheaper is key.

 

Not that I mean to disagree with you. :;): I'm just actually jealous of your success at your painting events. LOL. :lol:

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Not that I mean to disagree with you. :;):

Because we all know that it's Kevin who always disagrees with Anne. ::P:

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Seems like the hobby of painting minis and mini companies are as strong now as they have ever been. Think about 10 years ago or 15 years ago. There seem to be more mini companies, mini lines, and paint lines than there were back then. And, we're at the point of being more than several years into the introduction of pre-painted minis.

 

Locally, my 3 Paint and Take sessions at OwlCon (the biggest annual gaming con in Houston) were definite successes. I set up for 6 painting stations, and I normally had 7 people painting at once with an average of 15 people per 4 hour session. And, generally, I could have had more people painting if I could have supported them.

 

My Paint and Takes at my local store have been successful enough that I'm wondering if/how to start limiting attendance so that I don't lose "money" when I host them.

 

Will well made pre-paints sap away a bit of the market? Probably a tad, at least in some cases. But, really, some of this doom and gloom really seems unwarranted.

 

Ron

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Locally, my 3 Paint and Take sessions at OwlCon (the biggest annual gaming con in Houston) were definite successes.

 

Again.. I gotta move to Texas. LOL. :lol:

 

But just to be clear... I don't want to be a herald of unwarranted "doom and gloom." I'm just speaking from experience. And my experience locally is that folks can't be bothered. Even the manager and employees at my present FLGS say as much. Just this past Sunday one of the employees said, and I quote, "I don't have time to paint. It takes all my time to prep my games."

 

And when I was offering free classes at another store (that has since closed... <sigh>), usually only myself and the two other organizers showed. Bummer.

 

I'm glad painting seems to be booming for others. I just wish it was the same in my immediate area where pre-painted D&D miniatures sell like hot cakes, the same Reaper Master Series paint bottles have sat on the shelf for over a year, and unpainted metal goes into the "blow out bin"... course, I shouldn't mind... I get good deals that way. :B):

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Are we doing this again? I thought we settled all this months ago.

 

Look, nobody who paints, likes to paint, or wants to paint in the future (whether they have yet or not) is going to be swayed by the existence of prepainted plastics.

 

People paint things for a reason. They build models for a reason. Those reasons are separate from why people buy toys.

 

They can be related reasons. And there are practical reasons for buying prepainteds (I'm going to buy some), like available time. But those practical reasons have no relation to painters and their needs. Painters paint because they have a drive and a desire to do so. Whether or not they could get something prepainted. That will never change. Sure, sometimes you just can't get the time to do it. But the need to do it does not change, unless you have some sort of overall lifestyle change (which, I hope to God, has nothing to do with anything as insignificant as PPM).

 

The biggest fallacy in all of this, is that some seem to think that people who will buy plastic exclusively would have been painters if they didn't have the plastics available to them. I don't believe that for a second. People who want the easiest solution are going to find it. The easiest solution is no minis, no painting, no nothing. None. Go look on the WoTC site. Ask who uses minis in their RPG. You'll find people who use nothing (easiest); people who use coins or game pieces (second easiest); people who use action figures (3rd); people who use prepainted minis (4th), and finally, the few of us who paint metal (the hardest).

 

The people in group #1 were NEVER going to paint. The existence of PPM is not stealing the desire to do so from them, or from groups #2, #3, and #4, because they were NEVER going to paint anything in the first place. Since we here represent group #5, and none of us is ditching the hobby (I have yet to hear or read of a dedicated hobbyist who is over any of this), there is nothing to fear.

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Whoops. I guess I stirred up pot I didn't know had been previously boiling. Sorry, gang. My whole point was just to lament over my lack of painting friends. I just want a little sympathy. Can't a little fella get himself some love??? <sniff>

 

::D::B)::poke:

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People, especially kids, want the easy way out.

 

Y'know, some of you painters really come off bad when this subject comes up.

 

Please consider that for some of us it is not a matter of wanting the "easy way out". Personally, I find that insinuation insulting. It has nothing to do with being lazy, wanting to take the easy way, or anything like that.

 

A) I have a limited amount of gaming time available to me (..and I'm even getting ready to open my own gaming store) and prefer to use that time to actually play a game, rather than painting.

 

B) I really have no interest in painting. It's a nuisance to me, not something I enjoy anymore.

 

I'm excited about prepaints!

 

Jeff

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Ohhh painters vs non painters....giddy I love this argument.

 

Do I fan the flames or do I put it out.....grabs gasoline.....just kidding.

 

I love to paint, heck I paint more then I play, it is how I comune with myself and the stillness. That being said I can respect those who loath to paint. The thing is I hate to paint "mooks" which is what LE is all abut and let me say I love that fact. I really cannot see the notion of Pre-paints scaring anyone away and those that might be are the kooky minority that give this hobby a bad name.

 

I ust say the one thing that is impressing me is Reapers self control of not trying to over hype the pre-painted aspect like Mongoose.

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Are we doing this again? I thought we settled all this months ago.

We did. As I said in post #188...

 

Mage Knight was my gateway drug, even though I never played the game (I used them for D&D). Don't discount the people this could bring into the "hobby" (as painters). It certainly won't kill it. There's no reason to stop buying and painting metal miniatures because the company also produces prepainted plastics. In fact, I think this has a good opportunity to expand Reapers share of the marketplace (from personal experience, but also from researching the marketplace when I looked into opening a game store and seeing firsthand the market by doing demos and Paint and Takes at various stores and Conventions).

I'll say it again. GATEWAY DRUG. Once you start using miniatures, it's an easy step to wanting a better/different paint job. Then they've got you...

 

My Paint and Takes at my local store have been successful enough that I'm wondering if/how to start limiting attendance so that I don't lose "money" when I host them.

*sigh* I know the feeling...

 

It makes the painting events at the local Cons even more special though.

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People, especially kids, want the easy way out.

 

Y'know, some of you painters really come off bad when this subject comes up.

 

Please consider that for some of us it is not a matter of wanting the "easy way out". Personally, I find that insinuation insulting. It has nothing to do with being lazy, wanting to take the easy way, or anything like that.

 

A) I have a limited amount of gaming time available to me (..and I'm even getting ready to open my own gaming store) and prefer to use that time to actually play a game, rather than painting.

 

B) I really have no interest in painting. It's a nuisance to me, not something I enjoy anymore.

 

I'm excited about prepaints!

 

Jeff

 

There is nothing inherently insulting in implying that a person who does not want to do something does not want to do the thing he does not want to do.

 

That's like saying it's insulting to ducks to say that they don't want to drive cars.

 

I also don't think there is anything inherently insulting in noting that people, and the world for that matter, take the path of least resistance to getting what they want. The path of least resistance = the easiest path. Plain and simple. A person such as yourself, who has no inclination to paint, but does want painted minis at his gaming table, will buy pre-painted minis because that is the easiest solution for his personal needs. Someone who would rather use coins will do so, because that is easiest for his taste and needs.

 

Speaking only for myself, I never said anything about being lazy. Easy does not equal lazy in my mind (it might in yours if you inferred that, but let's leave Freud out of this, shall we?). Easy is just that: easy. Least resistant to getting what one wants.

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However, "easy way out" has a decidedly negative connotation and is normally meant as being lazy. Adding in "especially kids" also insinuates being immature...

 

That said, let's take a step back from the computer and relax, we're pretty good about avoiding flame wars here.

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