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Pre-Painted Plastics vs Metal and related Debate


Sergei
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Clearly having Reaper HQ anywhere in the US would give some americans an unfair advantage of proximity. Move it to Copenhagen Denmark. That way it would be (almost) equally problematic for all americans to get there.

 

ReaperCon should be held in the state that took home the most trophies from the previous year.

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Clearly having Reaper HQ anywhere in the US would give some americans an unfair advantage of proximity. Move it to Copenhagen Denmark. That way it would be (almost) equally problematic for all americans to get there.

 

ReaperCon should be held in the state that took home the most trophies from the previous year.

 

Yeah!... what Matt said.

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Why? This rule might as well be tossed. The purpose of such a rule is to reward your opponent with something interesting to look at and encourage the hobby by pushing you to paint.

 

I gotta ask.

 

How many of you out there play with pewter miniatures that are individually crafted? Or do you take the easy way out and buy them from some big cold impersonal factory that clones them in rubber molds and cranks 'em out by the cartload?

 

Man! What IS this world coming to!

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[sarcasm]Why thanks for asking spike. I only use miniatures that I have cast at home in my own spin caster, right after I vulcanize the rubber molds in my oven. And I mine/mix my own pewter as well. And I don't play rules unless I wrote them. It's only fair, for my opponents sake. I wouldn't want him to get bored. ::P: [/sarcasm]

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I played at a WHFB tourney a couple of years back. I probably saw about $1000 in unpainted metal in entirely unpainted armies owned by people who were never, ever going to paint a miniature, but liked to game. Meantime a mate burned himself out so badly painting an entire 3000 point Vampire Counts army that he'll probably never pick up a brush again. His army- probably the last he'll will EVER paint as it killed the joy of painting for him- was the ONLY painted army. Ya know what woulda looked good on the other side of the table? Prepaints. You know what woulda kept him in the fantasy battles side of the hobby, and is now the only thing he'll buy (in the form of Starwars CMG?) Prepaints.

 

I like metal. I like painting. Prepaints are not going to make me not want metal. I am a metals customer- I don't even like styrene. He is a prepainted plastics customer. Nothing is going to force him to paint. Make painting a condition of entry to a tourney and he'll start up his own and steal all your players on principle. He's like that. I look forward to buying some Reaper PrPaPl and showing him. I'm sure he'll be interested.

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I know game groups that will now be able to impose "no unpainted figure" rules and actually be able to get away with it AND still keep armies affordable to anyone who wants to play.

 

Why? This rule might as well be tossed. The purpose of such a rule is to reward your opponent with something interesting to look at and encourage the hobby by pushing you to paint.

 

I don't see the difference between unpainted metal and prepainted plastics in this respect. In fact, I can respect the unpainted metal more as it represents at least the intention to paint, plus there is a bit of posing and preparation that goes into metal minis before painting ever begins.

 

Plastic means you have no intention of painting these guys and the effort you put forth was zero compared to metal minis.

 

Perhaps instead they could have a different division for completed metal minis and plastics. That way the original intent of the rule can be enforced without excluding anyone who bought plastic.

I think you mis-interpreted my comment. I'm not talking about tournaments, or overly organized groups. This comment was strictly from my personal experience. I used to play with an informal group that played weekly at a friends house - sometimes there would only be two of us, other times there would be 8 of us. We'd also get together about once a month for these Saturday events we called "Mega-battles", where there would be a scenario with 8-10 players on the same table. We'd take pictures and do write ups of the battles. We strongly encouraged that every one bring only painted minis to the mega-battles, so the pictures would look cool. There was no "rule" for it, no one was excluded because they didn't paint their minis. Invariably, all but one or two players would have painted minis, because as a group, we wanted the pictures to look good.

 

We had one guy who flat out refused to paint his minis. They were unpainted metal, they always would be - he had no intentions of painting them - and he would only buy one piece minis, so he didn't have to glue anything but the bases on. We liked playing with him, and we never forced him to paint, or leave the group, because, really, there was no alternative - either he played with unpainted, or he didn't play at all.

 

But it's a real bummer to look through these really cool pictures and see the invariably unpainted miniatures of this one player. So I don't agree that having unpainted metal shows an intention to paint - and for those people who don't have the intention, I'm glad the prepaints will be available.

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Will people who refused to paint in the past, strip their pre-paints and play with them to make a point?

 

In Wargods, you need 10 man units, or 6 for Sebeki and the unit packs are 24.95 - 34.95 (12 man Spartans) each.

 

Rackham announced going totally pre-painted about the same time they released their own paint line. :giggle:

 

Pre-paints will be good for some and not needed by others. No need to "bicker and argue about who killed who...'"

 

I think Reaper has far too much invested in the "Hobby" to drop the metals and start churning out pre-painted plastic toy soldiers. Let's not get too excited aobut it.

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Everyone around here (most I think) know how much I dislike plastics.

 

I even mentioned it to ReaperBryan at ReaperCon when he pointed to where the PrePaints were.

 

I looked at them. Know what? They don't look that bad. Darn fine, in fact. I think it's good for the hobby.

 

And what's more, I'm looking at them and seeing how easily they would convert into Christmas Tree ornaments. :devil::upside:

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Miniatures have many uses.

 

My first introduction to them was through Ral Partha and Grenadier for my RPG game sessions.

 

I grew to enjoy the painting aspect as it's own hobby soon enough.

 

I've enjoyed some miniature games.

 

In terms of the miniature games, like Warlord, Warhammer, etc..., the important thing to remember, at the end of the day, it is a board game. No different than Monopoly or Risk. Heck, Fantasy Flight Games has several board games with some pieces that have terrific details.

 

But this gets back to the painting as it's own hobby. Painting requires a tremendous amount of work ranging from GW's plastics where you have to clip, assemble, glue, prime, and paint, to Reaper's Dark Haven line of metals where it's 99.9% of the time a 'simple' prime and paint job.

 

Those who hold that gamers shouldn't be using prepainted figs are on the wrong side of the table. Get yourself a painting group because it's the painting aspects of the minaitures that hold your attention. It's not the gaming aspect. It's not the tactics and strategy of the game. It's the painting, the challenge of raising your own abilities, or learning from your fellow painters and from learning new things about painting.

 

I'm looking forward to Reaper's line but suspect that there may be some initial slow sales due to them making sets of things are are very common in the DDM line and very cheap in the aftermarket sales. (After all, Dwarven Forge had some prepaints too ala orcs, skeletons, and lizard men and they weren't bad.)

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I really have nothing against plastic minis. GW has done some great work with their plastic regiments and characters sets. ::D:

 

But why can't companies who want to produce pre-painted plastics also make it available to the consumer to buy the unpainted plastic minis? Leave it up to the buyer, make them the same price even if you want.

 

I am really bummed since I heard that Rackham is going totally pre-painted. I fear Reaper may be next, then GW, then my beloved hobby dies. ::(:

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After touring Reapers facility, I'd bet GW goes all plastic, then all prepaint before Reaper does. GW has plastics capability in house already, Reaper doesn't. Going 100% prepaint plastic is only cost effective if a) all of your production is farmed out anyway or b) you already have plastic injection capabilty in house. Reaper fits neither of those bills at this point. I don't know how Rackham fits into that.

 

I'm really surprised that GW hasn't experimented with prepaints already, given their primary motivation is to keep people buying and playing new armies.

 

I do agree with you about why the companies who produce the pre-paints won't sell the plastics unpainted. In Reapers case, it's not such an issue though - in a way, they already do - I know for a fact that several of the samples I saw at RCon were directly taken from Pewter sculpts, and I think ReaperBryan indicated that all of them were, but I can't recall if he actually said that, or I just interpreted his comments that way.

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