Pre-Painted Plastics vs Metal and related Debate

[Knighthart]

I see it as inevitable but regrettable that Reaper Mini has joined the ranks of those who are Walmarting the miniatures games hobby. Fortunately for me I have a core group of like minded individuals who will not play Warlord (or any other game) with prepainted plastics on the table. And since we run the tournaments they will not be allowed under our house proxy rules.

 

 

and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along?

[sniffles]

Like a lot of other folks, when I read the announcement I thought for a second someone had posted the April Fool's Day news a month early.

 

I'm not a big fan of prepainted minis myself, being quite fond of painting my own. But I see the advantage of prepainted plastics. When you want to put 20 orcs on the table for a single combat encounter, plastics are the way to go. Plus, with plastics you can write numbers on the bases with paint pen so you can track the damage on each individual orc.

 

A friend of mine doesn't paint minis at all but he likes having lots of stuff on the battle mat, and he's very happy about the non-random marketing strategy. He's tired of trying to track down singles of the D&D plastics that he wants.

 

As long as it doesn't cause a drastic reduction in the number of metal minis for me to paint, I have no problem with this.

 

But now I want to see some samples!

[ZILLA]

So I guess this is how my beloved hobby dies, to thunderous applause.

[Sergeant_Crunch]

I don't think the hobby is going to die from prepaints. My belief is that people are going to want metal minis for their characters, or unique models in wargames, and the plastics for the rank and file mobs.

[claymoore]

and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along?

 

Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys.

Now I'm all for this kid playing with his buds who have likewise purchased instant armies but I would never have started playing Warlord if it had involved prepainted plastics and I will not be forced into doing so now, whether they are in my army or an opponent's.

[cristomeyers]

how can one be so elitist about playing with toy soldiers?

[Sergeant_Crunch]

But what makes the experience of playing the game any less for that kid? And why does it have to be a kid? When these hit market I'll be filling out my WL rosters with them. It all depends on how you view painting. I enjoy painting CAVs and other sci-fi pieces, I don't enjoy fantasy figures nearly as much. I still want to play Warlord, but don't want to have the primer brigade on the table. So I buy metal CAV figures, fill the WL ranks with plastic Orcs, and use metal for the character models. The added benefit is that I now have more time to paint the models I enjoy painting.

[Kengar]

Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys.

Now I'm all for this kid playing with his buds who have likewise purchased instant armies but I would never have started playing Warlord if it had involved prepainted plastics and I will not be forced into doing so now, whether they are in my army or an opponent's.

 

I understand what you are saying, but -and YMMV- to me, Warlord is a game intended for playing. What matters is how the players play the game, not what the markers we call minis look like or what they're made out of. As far as "without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys" goes, I disagree entirely. Is chess "playing with toys" unless you carve your own pieces?

 

Is the hypothetical kid in your example better or worse than a hypothetical rich kid who plops down a gorgeous pewter army that Daddy paid some Golden Demon winner big $$ to paint for Juinor? What about folks that field a squad of bare metal figs in their army because -between work and family, etc.- they didn't have time to finish painting their army before the Con/Tournament? Are they unwelcome at your table? And what if the kid with the plastic kicks a beautifully painted army's collective keister in the tournament, is he a poor player because he didn't paint the figs himself?

 

Painting and Gaming -whether it's wargame/skirmish or RPGs or whatever- are two related, yet distinct hobbies. Plastics aren't going to kill the painting hobby any more than video games killed tabletop gaming.

 

Relax, people. It's all good if people are having fun.

[vutpakdi]

and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along?

 

Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys.

Now I'm all for this kid playing with his buds who have likewise purchased instant armies but I would never have started playing Warlord if it had involved prepainted plastics and I will not be forced into doing so now, whether they are in my army or an opponent's.

 

Yep. You spend the hours and money because you enjoy the craftsmanship as well as the gameplay. The kid doesn't because he isn't at that stage yet. If you shut him out, he never will get to that stage.

 

I'm all for increasing the number of Warlord players and for Reaper remaining a healthy, viable growing business. Making the game easier to get into and easier to start playing will increase the number of players and help Reaper's bottom line. Being "you have to be as hardcore as I am" restrictive may be to your delight, but too restrictive seems to be a poor strategy for increasing the number of people playing Warlord.

 

Besides, I think that most of the line will initially be sold to the 75% of people who buy Reaper minis to use them with RPGs and never paint them anyway.

 

 

Ron

[claymoore]

how can one be so elitist about playing with toy soldiers?

 

If you see no difference between models and toys than I understand your confusion. I'm sure Reaper does not want this discussion to degrade into namecalling so I'll post no further on the subject.

[Mengu]

I've spent litterally thousands of dollars on miniature games, and thousands of hours painting them. I have no problem playing against an opponent who plops down a fully silver, 50% proxied and 80% unassembled army to play. An opponent putting down a fully prepainted plastic army would merely be an improvement on the situation.

 

Plastics aren't going to kill the painting hobby any more than video games killed tabletop gaming.

 

Well killing is a strong word, but prepainted plastics *are* stealing a market share from the metals, just like video games *are* stealing away people's tabletop gaming time. The former doesn't bother me as much, I like to paint and can do it on my own as long as there are miniatures to put paint on. I find the latter to be quite unfortunate.

[slidedog]

The battle over pre-paints vs. lovingly painted minis (models) is almost as old as the hobby. I've seen it dealt with on many a forum. My 2 cents is that if a kid can plunk down his cash, get his painted minis and play a game, I'm all for it. This is how we suck them in... Once they are playing against people whose minis look waaaay cooler than theirs, they get curious, want to learn to paint, then you got 'em!

 

Pre-painted mini games are the gateway drug to lifelong brush licking.

 

Encourage ALL forms of mini table top games, it grows the hobby, and gets more cool stuff on the market. That's how I started, played MK with my son, we had tons of fun. Then I got to looking at the minis and thought " hmmm, I bet I could do a better job, painting these looks like fun". Went out and bought some Reaper figs and the rest is, as they say, history.

 

So in essence I say the whole arguement is missing the point, growing the hobby, making more people aware of the social and creative aspects of gaming is all good. Puts more game and mini companies in business, gives all of us broader options in figures and universes, the modelling aspect comes with time as a natural consequence of getting into the hobby. Encourage kids to play, teach them, be kind, and after a few years you end up with kids that are having fun, more socialized than some, commited to the hobby (and painting), and are great competition (this part I know from experience).

[ograx]

Well personally I am very excited about the news of this new line.I have looked into painting miniatures for years (15+) and have actually painted maybe a dozen or so minis albeit poorly.Now don't get me wrong I love looking at and playing with gorgeous minis but I neither have the time nor the talent nor the money to buy all these metal minis and paint them all.Needless to say I also don't have the money to get someone to paint them.

 

 

As of now I am using D&D minis from WOTC but am very dissatisfied with the quality of the product not to mention the price.(I am a canadian and my LGS charges 19.99 per pack as stated as the local MSRP.)

This forces me to buy online from ebay and other sources which makes the whole process even more time consuming and takes away from playing time.I do not mind the random factor in buying packs as I see this as a neccesary evil when the minis are also used in a skirmish game that is dependent for ranked games to have unopened booster with random contents.I do not play skirmish I use the minis for D&D but my son does need unopened boosters for his tournaments he goes into.

 

 

That said I love that reaper is coming out with prepainted plastics as now I can use higher quality minis in my game.(Hopefully)

My only worry is that reaper will not come out with the minis fast enough.

[IG88]

Hey,

My 2 cents on the playing others with cheap plastic armies. I've been there, a kid with only 10 dollar a week lawn mowing money and taking forever to build up warhammer armies, it sucked so I used alot of plastic Battlemasters men and hero quest figs and My opponents, middle aged men with money and painted figs let me play, I even won a few tournments with my Battlemasters orcs, lol.

I have money now and evolved into the collector/gamer with the nice painted figs. If in my younger stage the guys at my local store were arrogent meanies who's armies were to good to field against mine, I may have never evolved. This is a great opportunity for the poor kid looking at the great painted armies of us "big"boys. Thats the gamers side, one should not be confused with the collector side.

When you model, skulpt, paint your army you should be doing it for yourself and to progress your skills, its u and your mini's... no one else is involved and a row of plastics on the other side of the table only makes your army seem that much more significant. I don't think plastics are bad for anything. They are cheap, resilient, Highly convertable and will get more kids into the hobby boosting sales an funding guess what? Fine pewter figs in the Dark Heaven line. I think its a good move. I just hope the sculpting is top notch.

[sniffles]

and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along?

 

Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys.

Now I'm all for this kid playing with his buds who have likewise purchased instant armies but I would never have started playing Warlord if it had involved prepainted plastics and I will not be forced into doing so now, whether they are in my army or an opponent's.

Not everybody is using these minis for Warlord. And no one is trying to force you to use plastics yet. Plastic minis might even be a doorway to getting these kids to paint metal minis. And that's a good thing, IMHO.