Vil-hatarn Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 To those worried about Warlord: it's not like the plastics will make the metal Warlord minis obselete--many tournaments reward players with fully painted armies, and I suspect that most would not count the plastics as "painted" for the purpose of bonus points or extra prize drawings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristomeyers Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Not everybody is using these minis for Warlord. And no one is trying to force you to use plastics yet. Plastic minis might even be a doorway to getting these kids to paint metal minis. And that's a good thing, IMHO. Exactly. They can flesh out their grunts with the plastics and learn to paint on their heroes and leaders. I'm more concerned about quality of minis and such. Like I said, I've heard all of this before with Mongoose and Starship Troopers and it's still up in the air as to quality and such. Reaper may have a good rep, but so far all of the prepaints I've seen have been subpar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Not everybody is using these minis for Warlord. And no one is trying to force you to use plastics yet. Plastic minis might even be a doorway to getting these kids to paint metal minis. And that's a good thing, IMHO. I foresee a lot of Warlord armies where the grunts are all the prepainted plastics, but the heroes are all metal and hand painted. I think the combination of pre-paints and metal will get a lot more people into the game, which in turn supports the hobby. There are a lot of people out there who like to play wargames, but are intimidated by the hobby side of it. Even for a skirmish game like Warlord, you still have to paint 20-30 figures for a decent size force - and then, if you're trying to get someone into the game, you need to paint another 20-30 figues so you have an opposition army. Say you're doing a demo game - someone who plays decides they like it, so they pick up everything needed for their army of choice and go home to assemble and paint it. If they get frustrated at that point, they won't get their army built, and might not come back. But if they can pick up a ready to play army, they'll be back the next game, and so on. That's one of the reasons the pre-painted collectible games have caught on - buy a pack, open it up and play right away. This, of course, assumes that the plastics are of some better quality than some of those we've seen in the collectible games anyway - llike GW plastics, only prepainted - not like the WOTC plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinjo_Hokari Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 As long as Reaper doesn't stop putting out quality metal miniatures, I have no problem with them producing pre-painted plastic as well. For those that don't paint, they're a source of minis ready to hit the table. For those that paint, but paint slowly (I paint like glaciers move), it may be a means to fill out your forces. I would hope that any minis Repaer released in plastic would also be put out in metal as well. I've seen too many WotC minis that I'd love to have in metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwyksilver Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 To those worried about Warlord: it's not like the plastics will make the metal Warlord minis obselete--many tournaments reward players with fully painted armies, and I suspect that most would not count the plastics as "painted" for the purpose of bonus points or extra prize drawings. Yeah, have no fear, my armies of brilliance will never be made obsolete. Least not by prepainted plastics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knighthart Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 and I totally support this wisdom too! But I think the prepainted is just a window for faster set up and game times and perhaps the younger players who aren't so good at painting. Can't both get along? Let me see. I spend over a thousand dollars and hundreds of hours painting to field Warlord armies and some kid who just got $100 for his birthday, pops a bunch of plastic off the wall and throws down an instant army. No skill or craftsmanship required there. And without the hobby craft it's just playing with toys. I don't tend to offend, as I see both sides to the argument. And I don't want to implicate one either. Actually I'm curious about both sides. I do understand Claymoore's point though. He has invested a lot of time into his hobby and he has a right to feel a bit threatened by someone pulling a quick and easy maneuver. Yet I think Kengars' point is very valid and I've seen this many times in other games that someone with a bit more cash pays for his army or miniatures with out doing the leg work. And Vutpakdi's point was also very valid. If a kid sees the incredible hand painted army, it will make him curious to get involved. It's a win win situation in my book for Reaper. I also have a relation to this topic as my daughter is too young to paint the miniatures but she wants to be included so why not provide the pre-painted stuff to start and as she grows up she'll gain the experience and talent to paint her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshuaslater Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 To quote Matt Gubser on another forum, "Let's keep all this toy soldier stuff in perspective." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 To quote Matt Gubser on another forum, "Let's keep all this toy soldier stuff in perspective." LOL - what forum? I think I'd like to read that in context. I always shake my head over people getting defensive - "It's not a toy! It's a <insert hobby here>". Of course, that's from my parents having no qualms at all about admitting that their sailboat and motorhome are nothing but toys. Edit: Hmmm - do you think that back in the days before the printing press, when all decks of cards were hand drawn, the people who drew their own cards got upset with the people...ahhh, never mind, that would be topic drift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cristomeyers Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I just get really irked at people trying to denounce prepainted as "not part of the hobby" If it gets them playing the game, I don't see the problem with people not painting their own minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwawl Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'd like to respond to at least one concern here - yes. The Legendary Encounters™ pre-painted plastics will be, in accordance with our current proxy guidelines, legal for use in Warlord™. The initial release's Skeletons and Orcs will be most useful to Necropolis and Reven, but other models are planned. That's my 2¢. Well, that's the last nail in the coffin of Warlord for me. I don't like being sucked into something cool and then having it changed to crap. It's a very GW thing to do. Take that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthiir Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't understand why people are getting upset and calling this the end of Warlord. They stated earlier that proxy rules will apply to the PPMs. . .so you can use them for your non-unique heros/solos and grunts if you want, but you'll still have to use the metal for your uniques. . .your Warlords, some Captains, Sergeants, Heros and such. Their cheaper (cost wise) and for those who like to field painted armies (*pokes Qwyk*) a few PPs on the board until I can get my army finished is fine by me. For those of us who enjoy the painting part of the hobby, we might snicker at someone fielding an entire PP army, but we shouldn't push them away. Not many younger people have the time with soccer, basketball, karate, etc or the attention span to sit an paint an army. if i can suck a kid in at 13 with decent prepaints and over time get them to switch so that they want to customize their army instead of having their Crusaders look like everyone else's then great. Enjoy what you do with your metal, but don't be a geek snob. . .because we all play with toys no matter what you want to call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Well, that's the last nail in the coffin of Warlord for me. I don't like being sucked into something cool and then having it changed to crap. It's a very GW thing to do. Take that. At least walk out the door... dont bury yourself.. Oh, and bye, thanks for dropping by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilbob Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Pre-painted mini games are the gateway drug to lifelong brush licking. Absolutly!!! I have a kid in our group who has my Darkspawn models on indefinate loan. He's 15, no job, parents won't let him drive on his own (even though he has a licence). He does get an allowance for doing chores and such, but not enough to get for example the DS box set without saving for months (and then he wouldn't get to play WOW, which i'm not going to get into), so if he could pick up a couple troops worth of pre paints, he would feel much better about gaming with us. He's done a pretty good job painting what he has, but based on all the appologies, feels bad about borrowing my stuff. And then when his parents let him get a job/drive to where he could be working, then he can slowly upgrade. And I do understand the PoV that prepaints are "evil", they do take a market share, but they are haing fun right? we have fun right? shoudn't we all get to have fun? Also...I hope they are better plastic than the D&D minis, those tend to get melty if you forget 'em in your car durring the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruunwald Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I posted once or twice, long ago, and since then the forums seem to have forgotten my name (had to re-register). But I suppose that the enormous loyalty I have shown in buying multiple packs of Reaper from my local hobby store nearly every week, for several years, not to mention a strong record of online purchases from The Asylum, afford me the right to chime in here. Personally, I see this as only a good thing. Do I have a slight flutter in my stomach at the possibility that maybe this will affect the metal figs in some unseen way as yet unknown to us all? Sure, yeah. But I choose to believe Reaper when they say that this is not their intention and it should not have any adverse effects. When I stopped by this morning and saw the news, I was stoked. For a lot of good reasons. The main is that I have wanted someone to do this, package prepainteds this way, for a long, long time. My little boy will love not having to gamble on what is in the D&D boxes, and still get plastic he can be a little bit rougher with, without having to worry about one of his daddy's favorite conversions hitting the ground and fracturing. You have my assurance that this will keep Reaper seeing green, as my weekly or monthly gaming money switches from some Reaper/some WoTC, to mostly just Reaper. The other great reason is the pure, unmitigated satisfaction in removing the main argument encountered over on the Distinguished Competition's forums, when recommending (as I too, too many times, have) Reaper as an alternative. That is, "But, whah! I don't LIKE painting anything!" Well, now they don't have to. Nothing could have satisfied me more. Reaper is and has always been the superior product, and if the prepainteds are as good, there will be one fewer argument against, and I think, eventually a great deal more uniformity on the table, and harmony as more players grow to understand that you CAN get just what you want, and you CAN try new things without violating some invisible code. I seriously doubt this will diminish the hobby we love, of painting and converting and showing our metal figs off. How can it be any skin off the nose of those of us who paint to let someone else have something prepared for them? It doesn't. It's the same as when someone commissions the service. People will still love to do it the way they are used to, and others will still love to see it done. But more choice is a good thing. A thing to grow the hobby, and I can't wait to see these things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe the Painter Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'd like to respond to at least one concern here - yes. The Legendary Encounters™ pre-painted plastics will be, in accordance with our current proxy guidelines, legal for use in Warlord™. The initial release's Skeletons and Orcs will be most useful to Necropolis and Reven, but other models are planned. That's my 2¢. Well, that's the last nail in the coffin of Warlord for me. I don't like being sucked into something cool and then having it changed to crap. It's a very GW thing to do. Take that. So you're going to STOP playing a game because reaper is making it easier to find players who can afford to get into it? Let's face it, costs WILL drive people away. I mean, Warmachine is almost hitting $5/fig for grunts now! And how is it junk if there are plastics? The ruleset is the same. They're gonna be doing something no one else has, easy, off the shelf cannon fodder! Right now, I don't have the time or were-withal to paint every grunt to a high level. I paint leaders, I paint solos, etc. If I can strip the plastics easily and give them a good quick paint job, I will. But the whole "Plastic, ewwww!" has got to stop. I mean really. Details, weight, who cares? Reaper will still produce metals. But my buying habits for wargames has slowed, because I can't afford $100 to put 20 figs on the table. $5 for a single for display? No problem! I'll probably still strip and repaint the plastics. But being able to put out massed units cheaply, w/o dealing with rares and other nonsense, is fine by me! So let's end this elitist snobbery. Those who just want to play, will be able to. Those of us who want to field lots of grunts cheaply, will be able to. And plenty of people who enter the game because of plastics will also want to learn to paint, to convert, and make it their own. This won't attract the CCG/CMG people so much as cash/time strapped wargamers, and it's a different mindset. CCG people are willing to accept that a blue piece of paper is water. Wargamers eventually want to make a model of it, or convert the figs, or paint them better. So get out there, and embrace them with open arms. Invite people in. Show them how to convert and strip plastics. Hurrah! Because it's still just a game, we are all just pushing little glorified green army men around the board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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