Warlords vs. outrider

[Feanor]

OK both Rauthuros and Argy the silver dragon have the SA outrider but they are also warlords which means unique right? armies are only ever allowed one warlord correct?

Does this mean that if I outride the dragon I can also bring Eawod

this is how i interpret that because Rauthy also has SA summoned/witch queen

meaning you need to have to warlords.

Ideas or explanations please

[spiritual_exorcist]

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27192

 

Summoning a Warlord is discussed in the above thread.

 

When you spend the 15 points to field an model with outrider as a Solo, it becomes a Solo instead of it's normal type.

 

Therefore spend 15 points and Rauthouros isn't a Warlord, he is a Solo. So you can take the Witch queen because you haven't taken a Warlord yet.

 

A better question is, which type of Solo does Rauthouros, or any other Outrider, become (Monster, or Solitaire?). Does this need to be clarified? Possibly, as far as I know a model can't just be a 'Solo', it needs to be a monster or solitaire, just like a model can't just be an Elite, it needs to be a CLeric, Hero, Mage, or Rogue. Outrider(Monster/unique Monster) and Outrider(Solitaire/unique Solitaire) probably would have been better choices. But I'm sure Gus can make a clarification that satisfies everyone. In fact I think every summoned creature probably currently would best fit as a monster, so Gus could just say that models with outrider become Monsters, and their unique/non-unique status remains the same as what it was prior to becoming a monster.

[rgtriplec]

OK both Rauthuros and Argy the silver dragon have the SA outrider but they are also warlords which means unique right? armies are only ever allowed one warlord correct?

Does this mean that if I outride the dragon I can also bring Eawod

this is how i interpret that because Rauthy also has SA summoned/witch queen

meaning you need to have to warlords.

Ideas or explanations please

 

Yes, you can play both. How can Rathuros have Summoned/Witch Queen if they are not being played together?

[Qwyksilver]

The difference between Monster and Solitaire has generally been that Monsters are Models with SA: Beast and Solitaires are Solos w/o Beast. So I would presume Rauthuros and the Silver Dragon are both Monsters if they use Outrider.

 

However, there are two exceptions to this rule of thumb - Guardian Angel and Sphinx are both Solitaires and have Beast.

 

There does need to be some sort of clarification however, because there are Models with SA: Smite (Monster) so this would have bearing.

 

Currently, there are only 6 Models with both Outrider and Beast:

Argyrian, Silver Dragon

Rauthuros

Mastema, Demon

Burrowing Spawn

Minotaur

River Troll

[Shakandara]

Yes, you can play both. How can Rathuros have Summoned/Witch Queen if they are not being played together?

The fact that he has Summoned (Witch Queen) has absolutely no bearing on his ability to be fielded as a Solo. It does mean, however, that if you want to use him as a Solo *and* begin the game with him off the board, then you better be bringing the Witch Queen too, otherwise you'll have nothing to summon him to the table with. This is the only instance where you can take advantage of both of these abilities of Rauthuros'.

 

The thing to remember about the Outrider SA is that it changes the model's type to Solo. When using Outrider, Rauthuros ceases to become a Leader model for the Darkspawn, and instead becomes a Solo. Consider it like being a whole new datacard for him...

 

~v

P.S. I should have included more than rg's post for the quote, but you get the picture.

[Feanor]

As I thought thanks alot all of you

but it does need a clarification on if they are solitaires or monsters though

[rgtriplec]

Yes, you can play both. How can Rathuros have Summoned/Witch Queen if they are not being played together?

The fact that he has Summoned (Witch Queen) has absolutely no bearing on his ability to be fielded as a Solo. It does mean, however, that if you want to use him as a Solo *and* begin the game with him off the board, then you better be bringing the Witch Queen too, otherwise you'll have nothing to summon him to the table with. This is the only instance where you can take advantage of both of these abilities of Rauthuros'.

 

The thing to remember about the Outrider SA is that it changes the model's type to Solo. When using Outrider, Rauthuros ceases to become a Leader model for the Darkspawn, and instead becomes a Solo. Consider it like being a whole new datacard for him...

 

~v

P.S. I should have included more than rg's post for the quote, but you get the picture.

 

It had everything to do with it because you can not field two warlords. So if Rathuros can be summoned by the WQ then apparently he is not the Warlord and is the solo because she can only be a Warlord and they both must be in play to summon him..

[rgtriplec]

The difference between Monster and Solitaire has generally been that Monsters are Models with SA: Beast and Solitaires are Solos w/o Beast. So I would presume Rauthuros and the Silver Dragon are both Monsters if they use Outrider.

 

However, there are two exceptions to this rule of thumb - Guardian Angel and Sphinx are both Solitaires and have Beast.

 

There does need to be some sort of clarification however, because there are Models with SA: Smite (Monster) so this would have bearing.

 

Currently, there are only 6 Models with both Outrider and Beast:

Argyrian, Silver Dragon

Rauthuros

Mastema, Demon

Burrowing Spawn

Minotaur

River Troll

 

I think the only one in question would be the Silver Dragon because everyone else is listed on a current or older data card as a Monster or Solitaire.

[Qwyksilver]

Gus answered the question in the locked WL Chronicles Thread.

 

Q) Are models that employ their Outrider ability considered 'Monster' or 'Solitaire'? The Outrider ability only states Solo, not their specific Solo type. Relevant must importantly with regards to to Smite(Monster)/X abilities. Although I have to admit that this throws a bit of a wrench into things if they are 'Monsters' (or is models with Beast specifically become Monsters) as the Smite(monster)/X ability would then potentially function differently against virtually identical models. I suppose that's the price you pay for choosing Outrider and getting that extra initiative card.

A) Summoned Models are considered generic Solos, neither Monster nor Solitaire, so Smite (Monster) would not affect them. Smite (Solo) would affect them, Monsters, and Solitaires though.

 

Need to give him a hard time for just editting the existing post instead of adding a new one, so people know there was new info in it

[Shakandara]

It had everything to do with it because you can not field two warlords. So if Rathuros can be summoned by the WQ then apparently he is not the Warlord and is the solo because she can only be a Warlord and they both must be in play to summon him..

I see what you are saying, but Summoned (Witch Queen) is not what makes him a Solo... Outrider does. As such, the Summoned SA is not his determining factor. He can be taken as a Solo with or without Summoned... using him as Summoned however does dictate that you must take advantage of the Outrider SA, not the other way around.

 

~v

[spiritual_exorcist]

You can't summon Rauthouros without first spending the 15 points using the Outrider ability to turn him into a Solo. I don't understand the confusion, I think this has been answered pretty clearly.

 

Rauthouros + 15 points (via Outrider) = SOLO (Not Warlord), therefore you can take the Witch queen as your Warlord, being that Rauthouros is no longer a Warlord when you use Outrider.

[rgtriplec]

It had everything to do with it because you can not field two warlords. So if Rathuros can be summoned by the WQ then apparently he is not the Warlord and is the solo because she can only be a Warlord and they both must be in play to summon him..

I see what you are saying, but Summoned (Witch Queen) is not what makes him a Solo... Outrider does. As such, the Summoned SA is not his determining factor. He can be taken as a Solo with or without Summoned... using him as Summoned however does dictate that you must take advantage of the Outrider SA, not the other way around.

 

~v

 

I understand all that but the original question by Feanor was simply could he field the Dragon and Eowad at the same time. Not how outrider and solos works in general. Summoned/WQ may not be what makes Rathuros a solo but what makes him a solo was never at question, whether you could field both warlords was.

[Shakandara]

I understand all that but the original question by Feanor was simply could he field the Dragon and Eowad at the same time. Not how outrider and solos works in general. Summoned/WQ may not be what makes Rathuros a solo but what makes him a solo was never at question, whether you could field both warlords was.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. My mistake.

 

~v