2 base size changes made

[Gus Landt]

Just a heads up to anyone who's been playing with the new models that have come out in the last few months.

The Hydra Reptus Monster has been changed to be on a Giant (2") base, instead of the Super CD sized base.

Maladom, Fire Demon, a new Darkspawn model, has been increased to a Giant (2") base from a Large (1.5") base.

 

Both of these changes were needed due to production/size realities. Everything else looks fine.

[Humansquish]

Cool. I've been thinking of sculpting my own balrogish type demon for Maladom and this info will help.

[Outkast Samurai]

That's great. I've been wanting the Hydra on a square base for quite awhile now. Due to the size I'm surprised that it wasn't on a 3.5" floppy but a giant base is good enough for me.

[Gus Landt]

That's great. I've been wanting the Hydra on a square base for quite awhile now. Due to the size I'm surprised that it wasn't on a 3.5" floppy but a giant base is good enough for me.

I started out Friday looking to check a 3.5" floppy for size. The problems started when everyone I asked said they hadn't seen one of those in years. We finally dug one up, and found out it wasn't square.

 

Our current DHL 2203 Hydra fits just fine on a 2" base. so we're all good. The Warlord Hydra will look more fearsome than that, but it doesn't need to be much bigger. Heck, we could make it quite a bit bigger as long as it's feet remained in those spots.

Anyway, it turned out our blister cards couldn't handle a base bigger than 2" square, so it needed changing anyway. I'm just glad I don't have to answer any more questions about the Hydra not having a flat side, since he's on a circle!

[spiritual_exorcist]

My only real issue with this is that the hydra is one heck of a nasty piece of kit, with it's many attacks and frenzy and static MAV 9, it was seriously advantageous to have this model on a large 3 inch round base simply because it allowed you to get far more attacks in on it at once. Changing the base size makes (what I consider to be) the most powerful model in the game, even more powerful.

[shakhak]

Maladom, Fire Demon, a new Darkspawn model, has been increased to a Giant (2") base from a Large (1.5") base.

Now the Demon Conclave is even scarier. Muhahaha. It's also cool that those who have a proxy for Rauthorus will be able to keep using it for Maladom, or vice versa depending who comes out first.

 

 

@Spiritual Exorcist:

Are you playing with or against the Hydra?

I have been horribly unlucky/unskilled with this Beast. Rauth, and other 200+ models seem to far more effective with me. If you're playing with him, do you think you could drop some tips in the Reptus Sticky for me.

[Brushmaster]

Maladom, Fire Demon, a new Darkspawn model, has been increased to a Giant (2") base from a Large (1.5") base.

Now the Demon Conclave is even scarier. Muhahaha. It's also cool that those who have a proxy for Rauthorus will be able to keep using it for Maladom, or vice versa depending who comes out first.

 

 

@Spiritual Exorcist:

Are you playing with or against the Hydra?

I have been horribly unlucky/unskilled with this Beast. Rauth, and other 200+ models seem to far more effective with me. If you're playing with him, do you think you could drop some tips in the Reptus Sticky for me.

While I can't answer directly for SE , his comments are probably derived from heresay from myself and other local club members in Sydney and his own personnel observations . I have seen it used in about a dozen games now and not once has it died , although Bull Orcs pushed it close .

Edited June 12, 2007 by Brushmaster

[Gus Landt]

Around here, that thing gets beat like a rented mule. If I had to rely only on local playtesting, that thing would be like 100 points cheaper!

[Stubbdog]

true. I have taken it to battle a half dozen times and only once has it even killed half its points before being taken out. I am hoping the change in base size will help a little. But, it all goes on what you are facing. First couple of times I took him, I ended up facing the combo of super Eawod, Callindra, and Lysette. Hydra died on the first activation both games.

 

Last time I fielded him, I was able to put a good hurt on a pack of justicars, but not completely killing them in one activation, then the next activation, the Angel came swooping down and used the support of the justicars to wipe out the hydra.

 

Just my bad luck on playing opponent I guess..

[spiritual_exorcist]

I have to admit, I haven't used it, nor have I played against it. It just looks scary, and Brushmaster keeps ranting about how effective it is. I was simply commenting that making it's base size smaller will make it more effective.

 

I have serious doubts that it will be able to take down 300 points worth of enemy models in most cases. And he certainly is far from invincible, he's just extremely tough to take down with soldiers, and even a few Heroes and Leader models thrown in the mix. But what can one expect from a 300+ point model, there are less than a handful of them in the game. It doesn't worry me that much.

 

I think alot of the players Brushmaster and I might game with don't tend to think outside the box, so they'll continually pound away at the beast with the exact same tactic (run troops in and try to kill it). I can't speak for the games where Brushmaster himself has been involved, because I consider Ross a pretty good player, and I would think he could give the beast a pounding if he put his mind to it (Time to give Hellsgate a lesson and drop a couple of Level 3 Mages onto the board with Greater familiars and a few spells I think, stun the Beast while your troops give it a beating).

 

Ashkrypt + Arik with familiars, and Ice Storm spells, each one only has a 50/50 chance each turn, but after a couple of turns the Hydra would be dead.

 

Critical Strike Models combined with a couple of blessings (Logrim and Ivar + 6 Piercers, turn one = 7's to hit, turn two =5's or better)

 

Reven + Aspect of the Hunter + Enrage, or Varaug and his magic Axe

 

A couple of Hill Giants for the Gobbos (remember, they get the +5 support bonus cap as well in a noghra army, so pile the Gobbos in there with them), A Hill GIant + 5 GObbos would have 4 attacks at MAV 15, which are auto-hits, and 8 attacks at MAV 11, which gives you a good chance to knock the Hydra down to it's last track in one activation (and if you're lucky, along with the Goblins 5 attacks you might kill it).

 

Distract models, some of them are fairly cheap (3 War Dogs in a Troop with Danal, Damon, and 3 Lion Lancers)

 

Spearmen, to get First Strike attacks + Reach bonus, 7 Spearmen models gets you 4 First Strike attacks at +6, and most spearmen have decent MAV of 5+, meaning you'll only have to roll 4+. (Corvus + Spearmen, or Marick + Phalanx or any Captain + with spearmen to fill).

 

Cheap archers, like skeeters, who can chuck as many dice down range as possible.

 

Necromantic Surges, Paincage, and Warcry to keep models that get models that dies back on their feet and granting support bonus' and extra attacks.

 

Snipers, like Eawod, Lorielle, Caerwynn, Snorri, Khathan and the new Reptus Venomspitter could knock the Hydra down a bit so your melee and magic could finish it off.

 

Plenty of ways to do it, and at 300 points you can dedicate alot of resources to killing the hydra off without worrying about being wasteful.

 

Just some thoughts, I apologize if I made out that I thought the beast was some horror. I've actually been dying to get up to the games club with Brushmaster and have a go at taking our local Reptus player on after hearing all about the Hydra. Under usual circumstances I think I'd have a rough go with the Hydra, because I like to field hordes of meat puppets, and thats the exact sort of army the hydra can lay waste to using Frenzy.

 

Still, I stand by the position that the Hydra will be harder to kill on a 2 inch base, but I'm not claiming (nor did I ever) that it's unbalanced.

[Brushmaster]

The thing I've seen with the Hydra that its been backed up by a couple of clerics which have a group of flying Gaan-Hor Clan Warriors , so positioned as that one can not base the clerics but that they have clear LOS .

[vejlin]

Sounds like somthing I'd like to throw AOE-spells on.

[shakhak]

@SE

WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? I wanted ways for me to use the Hydra usefully, not a bunch of ideas for everyone else to use against me.

 

I agree with you that the Base size change is going to make the model tons more useful.

 

@Gus

Are there point adjustments related to base sizes?

It seems like things with a larger base usually have a disadvantage, unless they have ranged attacks or spells, because more models can gang up on it more easily.

[spiritual_exorcist]

The thing I've seen with the Hydra that its been backed up by a couple of clerics which have a group of flying Gaan-Hor Clan Warriors , so positioned as that one can not base the clerics but that they have clear LOS .

 

This is blatant abuse of the rules and clearly not the rules intent, flying models in the air should not be able to block someone from basing a model on the ground, that's obviously not the rules intent, and anyone trying to pull that stunt would get a few choice words, and wouldn't be seeing me across the gaming table form them again. Models burrowing or in the air should be moved appropriately out of the way in such a situation.

 

T'Kay is a chump in such a situation, with MD 13 your Ashkrypt equipped with Ice Storm and greater familiar kills her in and all her spells in a single shot on 3+, and Arik kills any other T'Kay on the board on 4's or better. Overlord X-Bowmen crit shot her on 4's, and then can proceed to pound the heck out of the Hydra.

 

THe quickest way to put Hellsgate in his place is to take out a freelance force, employ a whole lot of Goblins or bondslaves (20ish)in it to force the Hydra to only be able to move a few inches at a time, deal with any healers first, using magic or archers, while the Goblins act as supreme speed bumps against the Hydra. With all those points tucked into 2 clerics, and Gaan-Hor plus the Hydra you'll roll over this build because it is unbalanced.

[Gus Landt]

The thing I've seen with the Hydra that its been backed up by a couple of clerics which have a group of flying Gaan-Hor Clan Warriors , so positioned as that one can not base the clerics but that they have clear LOS .

To echo what SE said, plus point out that EE once told a guy who was doing that to stop doing it or be expelled from the tourney for poor sportsmanship. That is an abuse of a necessary rule (the fact that 2 models can't physically occupy the same space at the same time). Before he left, EE and I were experimenting with different fixes, but with didn't come up with a universally satisfactory one.