Flyers and Burrowers ending movement in B2B

[Skipper]

Both the flyer and burrower special rule states that they can land (or surface) as a free action at the end of a movement action. Can this end them in B2B contact with an enemy model?

 

Theoretically this would mean that the first action could end with the Flyer or Burrower ending in B2B contact and then with the second action conduct a combat action.

 

 

 

The second question is can this be used in conjunction with the charge move of improved charge. If so, does the landing (surfacing) occur prior or after the charge move.

 

 

Skipper

[Millerthyme]

Both the flyer and burrower special rule states that they can land (or surface) as a free action at the end of a movement action. Can this end them in B2B contact with an enemy model?

Yes

 

The second question is can this be used in conjunction with the charge move of improved charge. If so, does the landing (surfacing) occur prior or after the charge move.

Landing is a free action; therefore, it takes place after the charge or if you think about it the model is charging from the sky like a hawk diving down to catch a fish...

[Qwyksilver]

Both the flyer and burrower special rule states that they can land (or surface) as a free action at the end of a movement action. Can this end them in B2B contact with an enemy model?

 

Theoretically this would mean that the first action could end with the Flyer or Burrower ending in B2B contact and then with the second action conduct a combat action.

 

Yes. Absolutely yes. You cannot land or surface on top of another model, but you can most certainly end in b2b contact with them.

 

The second question is can this be used in conjunction with the charge move of improved charge. If so, does the landing (surfacing) occur prior or after the charge move.

 

Yes, you can use Improved Charge while Flying or Burrowed. If you notice on the data card, the Improved Charge value is listed on both the primary data section under general SA, and also in the special movement section. You will also notice it is the same value. It is really up to the Player if they want to land/surface and charge, or not. Honestly though, since both Flyer and Burrow allow you to avoid other Models and obstacles, I would see no reason why you would not remain in the special movement mode until the very end of your movement.

 

Models that do not have Improved Charge as a SA, have the standard Charge bonus of 2" to their movement when Charging. This would apply to all their modes of movement.

[Deguello]

If some one can freely change whether they are burrowing or flying maybe I am missing something but what is the benefit to the spells Wind storm and rock friends work..

 

Now I think I understand the intention of the spell, but If it is a free action to land or surface. Is it also a free action to fly or burrow? If a piece stays in place can they move to flight or burrow without taking a movement action. (My interpretation is this is against the rules as it comes at the end of the move) But say a burrowing unit wants to surface and use regular movement on the same turn. (Is that possible?)

 

I think my hangup is that it says free action.. when really It should say at the end of flight or burrowing a unit can choose the plane of play for the unit.

[Humansquish]

If some one can freely change whether they are burrowing or flying maybe I am missing something but what is the benefit to the spells Wind storm and rock friends work..

After you use wind storm or rock friends your archers can then shoot and/or your melee guys can charge.

 

Now I think I understand the intention of the spell, but If it is a free action to land or surface. Is it also a free action to fly or burrow? If a piece stays in place can they move to flight or burrow without taking a movement action. (My interpretation is this is against the rules as it comes at the end of the move) But say a burrowing unit wants to surface and use regular movement on the same turn. (Is that possible?)

To burrow or fly is an invoke special ability. So it takes your combat action.

 

I think my hangup is that it says free action.. when really It should say at the end of flight or burrowing a unit can choose the plane of play for the unit.

To me free action does say that I can choose the plane of the unit.

[Qwyksilver]

Wind Blast and Rock Friends are huge because it forces a Model onto a plane where you can do something about them.

 

As HS mentioned, a Burrower or Flyer needs to use an Invoke Special Ability (Combat Action) in order to start flying or go underground. Landing or coming to the surface is free, when that Model is activated.

 

If you are underground you cannot be targetted by any spell that requires LOS, nor can you be targetted by Ranged attacks. You can only hit them in melee with something else Burrowed. If you are Flying, ranged attacks and spells have their range cut in half. You can only hit them in melee with another Flyer.

 

Wind Blast forces the Model(s) down to the ground. Rock Friends forces the Model(s) up to the ground.

 

At that point, you can then swarm them with melee models, shoot them without range penalties, etc. The Flyer/Burrower will not be able to return to their special movement plane (Air/Underground) until their activation, and at that time they must Invoke Special Ability to get back there. If you have them in b2b contact because they are engaged in melee, they have to make a Discipline check to break b2b. So, depending on how the Initiative deck goes, you might have a single activation to put the hurt on, or several epending on how close your troops are to do something.

[Deguello]

Ok why is Rock Friends only 12" but wind storm is 24 " when the caster is flying... The dwarves have a caster with burrow.... How about some dwarven love..

 

 

Seems to me the best strategy would be to keep them flying and or burrowing. Like cocking a hammer it takes more moves to cock it that pull the trigger

[Skipper]

Thanks for the quick reply.

[Qwyksilver]

Ok why is Rock Friends only 12" but wind storm is 24 " when the caster is flying... The dwarves have a caster with burrow.... How about some dwarven love..

 

 

Seems to me the best strategy would be to keep them flying and or burrowing. Like cocking a hammer it takes more moves to cock it that pull the trigger

 

Wind Blast has a range of 24" because most of the time the model casting it will be on the ground targetting Flyers, which means the range is 12". On the rare occasion that you have a Flying spell caster use the spell, it gets a 24" range. Otherwise the spells function in the same manner. There are only 5 Models that are capable of casting the spell while flying.

 

[MOD]If folks want to get into a more detailed discussion about using Flyers and Burrowers and/or counters, you should really start a thread in Factions and Tactics. [/MOD]

Edited July 3, 2007 by Qwyksilver

[Deguello]

Ok why is Rock Friends only 12" but wind storm is 24 " when the caster is flying... The dwarves have a caster with burrow.... How about some dwarven love..

 

 

Seems to me the best strategy would be to keep them flying and or burrowing. Like cocking a hammer it takes more moves to cock it that pull the trigger

 

Wind Blast has a range of 24" because most of the time the model casting it will be on the ground targetting Flyers, which means the range is 12". On the rare occasion that you have a Flying spell caster use the spell, it gets a 24" range. Otherwise the spells function in the same manner. There are only 5 Models that are capable of casting the spell while flying.

 

[MOD]If folks want to get into a more detailed discussion about using Flyers and Burrowers and/or counters, you should really start a thread in Factions and Tactics. [/MOD]

 

 

Exactly... The caster.. Theorectically could be burrowing and casting at other burrowers... It is identical to Wind Blast.. in all other aspects.. swap burrow for flying etc...

and the wording of the spells allow a flier to cast rock friends on a target... So what is the range then 6"

[Stubbdog]

Ranges underground are not affected.

 

Basically, burrowing has some advantages over flying. But, it also probably costs a little more. Plus, only a couple of models can do it with any speed.

[Tannhauser]

Simple question that I may be missing the answer for:

Can a model in flight be base-to-base with a model on the ground? If not, then I do not believe you can claim the bonus movement for charging, since it requires you to make base-to-base contact, and you can only land after you complete your movement action. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

[Stubbdog]

I guess 100% technically you are probably correct on that tan man. But, the spirit of the rule is to allow the flyer to "swoop" down and charge on the descent so to speak. But, you are correct, that maybe we have our first errata or the Chronicles on the exact wording related to charging as it relates to flyers or burrowers.

[Gus Landt]

Exactly... The caster.. Theorectically could be burrowing and casting at other burrowers

The Burrow SA specifically says "Burrowing Models may not cast spells"

[Gus Landt]

I guess 100% technically you are probably correct on that tan man. But, the spirit of the rule is to allow the flyer to "swoop" down and charge on the descent so to speak. But, you are correct, that maybe we have our first errata or the Chronicles on the exact wording related to charging as it relates to flyers or burrowers.

Stubbdog is correct with the intent here. (Perhaps an official clarification should be added to ReaperGames about Flying/Burrowing models charging.) The intent is that you can charge a ground model.