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Quality of Pre-painted Legendary Encounters


ZILLA
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For those who were thinking of hitting the PPPMs with a shot of Dull-Cote, I tried it out today.

 

There were no adverse reactions to the paint (cloudiness, etc), and I thought it made the mini look a bit better/cleaner. The Dull-Cote flexes just fine, too, although I didn't try heating it up in water or anything. ^_^

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The difference being you can walk into your FLGS and buy the Reaper PPMs you want, cheap. Not exactly possible with WOTC.

 

Really, darn then i'll have to stop doing that if it's not possible, i hate doing things that aren't possible.

My FLGS sells loose WotC singles, i picked up more than a dozen recently for under $5.

 

 

To me the paint looks fine on these, the sculpts as well, it's the utter lack of selection i want that is keeping me from buying more than 1-2 minis total out of this line. Just 9 minis to choose from 7 of them i don't care at all about. That's what's keeping me out of purchasing any of these. The next few releases have a few more i'm interested in but still the total number is low.

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The difference being you can walk into your FLGS and buy the Reaper PPMs you want, cheap. Not exactly possible with WOTC.

 

Really, darn then i'll have to stop doing that if it's not possible, i hate doing things that aren't possible.

My FLGS sells loose WotC singles, i picked up more than a dozen recently for under $5.

 

 

To me the paint looks fine on these, the sculpts as well, it's the utter lack of selection i want that is keeping me from buying more than 1-2 minis total out of this line. Just 9 minis to choose from 7 of them i don't care at all about. That's what's keeping me out of purchasing any of these. The next few releases have a few more i'm interested in but still the total number is low.

Not every FLGS has singles of WotC models, just like not every FLGS has singles of Magic cards. I get the impression that there are no stores near SmokingWreckage that offer singles of the DDMs. It's not impossible for everyone, but it's not an option for everyone, either.

 

As for the number of miniatures in the line, I can assure you, it will grow. Realize also that we are not going for the "Collect 'em all" attitude. We're not releasing 180 models all at once to force a feeding frenzy. Much like Dark Heaven Legends, these models are intended to be around and available when you feel you need a particular model for a game. Maybe you want some more skeletons for a tabletop wargame. Maybe you're about to play in an RPG and need some orcs. That's what these models are intended for.

 

We're not going to force you to buy 6 packs in the hopes that maybe you'll get the 2 models you did want, though. And we're not cancelling them in six months to force you to buy them today. When you want them, they'll be here. ^_^

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Reaperbryan I'm not dumping on the line, i'm just waiting for the ones i want, which i sadly think will be a long time off if you put out 36 a year (9 a quarter, you may do more but from what i thought i read there was only one more group comming in 2007). The line so far just isn't meeting my needs, it looks great to me it just is lacking in selection, and i think it will take a long time to get there, the wuestion is can it surive till then...

 

I don't buy the WotC minis by the case or even in the random boosters. I buy the minis I want from a set, typically the most i ever get is like the set that came out most recently, i spend around $25 and buy a set of the Commons and Uncommons and get 36 minis, which works out to about 70-80 cents a mini and i'm done with the set. I get intereting assortment, that can work for many things, it may not always be the exact mini i want, but to tell you the truth right now LE isn't giving me that either, and it won't for some time, if you only put out 9 minis at a time, and you keep to the "grunts", which can be purchased easily and cheaply from other sources, the line just isn't grabbing my intrest.

 

The 36 minis i can get for 80 cents a pop a few times a year give me a lot of options to work with right now. While i prefer to have the "right" mini i have played with game pieces, coins, and beads, not having what i want isn't going to kill me. The probelm with LE so far is it's offering me everything i have, and nothing new.

 

WotC isn't forcing my to buy 6 boosters. Through single sales in my FLGS, E-bay, or Trades if i really want a Rare i can get it with out ever buying a Booster and go in for the "hope of getting what i want". There are options open for not buying boosters. Sure the "limited run" nature of the WotC minis can be potential problem, but i'm not into the "got to get them all mentality" for my Minis, i want things i can use for my RPG, with little to no fuss. I might buy the occasional "rare" if i need it for something comming up, or i know i can use but i don't tend to get many of the Rares, and don't care that i don't have all of them. So far LE hasn't changed that.

 

I understand that this line is designed to be around a long time (but everywhere i look online the worries are lack of intrest in the first offering will kill things and so it won't be around for long), it has to last a while for me to get the figs i want and i don't see the things i am really interested in comming up soon. While i saw the things comming up later, still for the most part they aren't things grabbing my desire to buy them, or many of them, those comming up are still many of the things i already got.

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And we're not cancelling them in six months to force you to buy them today.

 

Does this mean that unlike DHL, you will never discontinue unpopular LE models?

I don't want to say Never. I will say there is no "planned obsolesence" where we will stop offering them on a specific date - which I offer up primarily as a contrast to the marketing of other brands.

 

We may see a time in the future where unpopular models are no longer offered. But I do want to be emphatic that it is not our intent to make them "collectible" by virtue of being unavailable.

 

I am not comfortable speculating on when/if, however. That is a decision for others above my head.

 

**Edit - G_S posted while I was editing mine for grammar.

 

@G_S - I appreciate your honesty and don't think you're trashing the line. I am pointing out the differences between how we as a company offer our product, and how other companies offer theirs. Yes, you can find ways to get the model you want, and only the model you want, from their line by going through other channels (e-bay, some FLGS' singles rack, etc). We have tried to make it so we offer it as the default choice -get what you want, when you want it.

 

We cetainly think the market will bear this line out for long enough for it to have something for everyone. Do the first 9 models have soemthing for you? Guess not. Do the next 9? Maybe. With there be something in the first 50? Hope so. Never? It's entierly possible. I will say that for me, it has models I want. So does the next release. but then again, I get to help choose, so I have an advantage . . :devil:

 

I hope that you do not think I am singling you out or attacking you. More than anything, I just want to highlight that our product is different because of the product itself (I think our models look better, although obviously not everyone does), and because of how we are choosing to market and sell it.

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Not to sidetrack the thread, but other than secondary sources, can you even get the stuff in the first couple releases of WotC's DDMs anymore?

 

I think as long as Reaper has a long term plan on this, and steady (even if few) releases over the next couple years, we'll eventually see a point where the ready availability of the LE line outweighs the secondary market of DDM commons, particularly the ones from the early sets. The only two things I see that will change that are Reaper giving up on the line too early, or WotC deciding to re-release a lot of stuff from their DDM line as non-collectables, and overwhelm the market in an effort to hurt the fledging LE line.

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For those who were thinking of hitting the PPPMs with a shot of Dull-Cote, I tried it out today.

 

There were no adverse reactions to the paint (cloudiness, etc), and I thought it made the mini look a bit better/cleaner. The Dull-Cote flexes just fine, too, although I didn't try heating it up in water or anything. ^_^

 

Ah that's good to know. Anyone try overpainting them yet using the existing paint jobs as a basecoat? I'm guessing it won't be a problem.

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Reaperbryan don't worry i'm not feeling harrassed, and honestly I like hearing from the people in charge as to the whys and where fors of what is going on with the line, becuase it's a line i want to like.

 

The problem i have now with line is selection, and it's something comming up in the forseeable future that it will continue to be.

 

I hit a few Message boards/forums pretty regular and these minis got talked about A Lot on them, with people speculating about what we would see before hand and now that they are "out" there are a lot of people dumping on it. I'm reading from the painters that they look like crap (but i think they are as good and no worse than the D&D and AT-43 paint jobs they keep getting compaired to), and from gamers that the quality is low, and people "expected better" from Reaper. Still trying to figure that one out, it's the same sculpts....

 

But what i'm trying to figure out is the selection choices. The marketing seems directed at two groups RPG players and War gamers who want to amass grunts for the armies but not take the time to paint loads of them. It's a good thing having more than one target better chances of a good product line with legs.

 

The line "Because your Encounters should be Random, not your Miniatures!" seems squarly aimed at RPG players, cause i don't know of a war game that has random encounters, but the bulk of the RPG players i know of who are open to the idea of pre-paints already have loads of Orcs and Skeletons. You can in secondary market buy loads of them for 25 cents or under becuase the DDM have them comming out (orcs big time) in almost every set. Most of what is comming is stuff they already have. Why are the first few product runs predominatly the things already flooding the market?

 

I understand needing/wanting to have the "reaper alternitive" to the flood out there, so your "brand" can supply those needs as well to newer peole who don't have them, but why is such a large percentage of the intial runs covering ground already covered? Sixty percent of the first release is Orcs and Skeletons stuff i have, and many people i know, have comming out their ears and can be foud every where?

 

Is it just the fact that they are "iconic" monsters, everyone makes them becuase they are so common to many games and systems? If so valid reason, but why such a large percentage of the inital run? Why if the first out of a long running line focus so much on Skeletons and Orcs? 6 of them in the run, why not 1 each, for 2 of the 6 slots filling these and put 4 Other monsters in there to give some selection? If the line really is going to be long running, give us a smattering of stuff each time to slowly fill everyting out instead of dropping most of the release as just two things? That from the look of the net people just don't care about.

 

Now to not dump on you guys, here are some things i like (paint, sculpt are great in my eye, selection is all that is lacking), 3 of your 9 figs are i think really in the direction of giving the consumer the ability of not buying "half-dozen packages just to find that one model you need". The Ogre, Troll and Minotaur , those things are things that aren't common in the blind model, the common in the blind are just too easy and too cheap to get in the secondary market. Having a large selection of not the utter common things is to me the way to go. If you are up for a bit of a gamble and do buy a blind pack your odds of getting an Orc are pretty good, they are so Common that to make 33% of your first release something you do have a good shot at getting easy in the other format just doesn't seem to want to make people drop that gamble.

 

I'm not saying only do the rare and uncommon figures, and exclude the common, i don't think that would be good model for growing a line that will eventually in the long haul cover everything, i'm just thinking it would have been a better idea to Not have 60% of the first release be the utterly generic same thing. It just makes the line look lack luster and plain. Something i think a lot of people are responding to when they are dumping on the line. I think it's the probelm they have but just haven't put the finger on it.

 

If you really are going for a long haul approach then pace it and give a wider selection and don't front load with all the skeletons/orcs you could need at once. One of the probelms with non-blind is guessing what people want and producing that in numbers and quality to fill the demand for that thing, making the bulk of the first run really just two things Skeletons or Orcs, just makes those who have no "need" for those go "eh" and pass.

 

If there was 1 skeleton and 1 orc sculpt in this lot, (and the other 4 sculpts were spread out over consecutive releases), i would be much more willing to buy them even though i have loads of orcs and skeletons, the marginal return on getting 1 skeleton and 1 orc sculpt with 7 other new and intersting sculpts far out ways for me getting 6 sculpts of things i don't really need.

 

 

$0.02

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funny - it's amazing that the LE mini's are getting dumped on so bad when they haven't been officially released yet, and very few people have actually seen them in person.

 

If they're getting trashed so bad now, at least people won't have high expectations of them when they finally get to see them in person. IIRC, that was a major issue for Mongoose with one of their PPM lines - the hype didn't match the reality. In this case, maybe that's a good thing for Reaper - hopefully the reaction in the coming weeks will be "Hey, these aren't as bad as I'd thought they'd be. I think I'll pick some up."

 

I know I'm waiting for them to appear in my local store so I can actually see the production pieces in person before I make my judgement.

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Sorry to all you in Reaper.. But I think that new line is just awful :(

Really, I understand that this is non collectable, line, of fast painted minis..

But those looks worse than lots of minis I saw painted by people who never had brush in thair hand :(

Could be much better (or at least a bit more better :P) :(

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I received my contest package last night, and I have to say, they look much better in hand than the pictures give them credit for. The minotaur and the Ogre Chieftain really stand out. The paint job on the orcs is really good too, although I'm not a big fan of that particular style of orc sculpt, they still look really good when compared to the competition.

 

All in all, I think they've turned out to be pretty fantastic for pre-painted plastic...and the fact that they're not randomized makes them even better!

 

I'm looking forward to all the future releases.

 

Thanks guys, and good job!

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