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Frankthedm

D&D 4E seems to be looming ahead.

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I'm tired of D&D's constant "new version" releases. They're as bad as Microsoft. <_<

OR GW!!!

 

rule of being an Imperialist #1: if you don't make enough money, squeeze your subjugate peoples with a suprize tax...

 

game empires like WotC and GW do this with constant new stuff that you pretty much need to buy...3.5 made me go 'huh?' in interestign ways, then my eyes opened...

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this is all over the gaming boards, from paizo to enworld to here.

 

if you got the the D&D board on wizards.com you get a 4dveture countdown splash page (can't access anything beyond it thou), there is a screenshot of the 4e message board on enworld & I just read this off paizo's message board

 

From The Miniatures Page (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/519193)

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August 16, 2007 (Renton, WA) – Whether you storm a mad wizard's tower every week or haven't delved into a dungeon since you had a mullet and a mean pair of parachute pants, one thing is certain - millions of D&D players worldwide have anticipated the coming of 4th Edition for many years. Today, Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook. A pop culture icon, Dungeons & Dragons is the #1 tabletop roleplaying game in the world, and is revered by legions of gamers of all ages.

 

The 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new web-based tools and online community forums through the brand-new Dungeons & Dragons Insider (D&D Insider) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeals to veteran players.

 

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet — the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

 

"We've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D Director of Roleplaying and Miniatures Games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex, while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

 

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January — Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters. The first live demos of 4th Edition will happen at the D&D Experience gaming convention in Washington D.C. in February 2008. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

 

Since its first release in 1974, the fantasy roleplaying game Dungeons & Dragons has taken millions of players on imaginary adventures of epic scale. Today, D&D is universally regarded as the original game that created the roleplaying game category, and the inspiration for generations of game designers. D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia.

 

I for one love D&D, I have most of the 3.5 Wizard books, I tried to get allot of the other companies releases but in the end it was just easier for me to stick with WoTC, but I'm not really sure if I'll buy any 4e product, maybe the Player's Handbook & that's about it (just in case I hook up with a game that runs 4e rules). I for one have liked 3/3.5 allot of the rules were similar to old house rules (any race--any class simple saving throws, etc etc), but it really doesn't make sense to launch a new addition right now with so much 3.5 books out there. Then again I guess Hasbro wants to rape more people(that are willing of course, myself included) out of money.

 

I just hope allot of the non-core books are still good with 4e as I have a $(#load of them.

 

RM

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Bah. 3.0 to 3.5 to 4.0 in how long? I see a GW trend here.

 

All game companies that publish rules update them every few years in some way. Wizards and GW just seem to weather the fan backlash better than other companies. However they also alienate more long term fans every time they do it. This is probably because they ammount to the 800 pound Gorillias of the game world. The thing that is annoying about those two companies is that what usually happens is they produce so much "new" material that stresses and breaks their respective game systems. Rather than adding new content they add new armies and new character classes then they try to shoehorn these onto the core rules. eventually the reach the breaking point and they have to release a new edition to "fix" those problems. It's and endless cycle perpetuated by the fact that their fan base has a hard time adapting to change. Not all new classes and armies are out of balance but many fans will complain that they are simply because they have not adapted. So they always strip the system down to it's core and release a new "better" edition which boost their sales for a while then when that drops off they start all over adding new stuff until they get to the point that the game is either broken again or the fans believe it is.

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Yup, definately time to switch to Savage Worlds. I was unimpressed with 3rd ed., and I am learning to loathe 3.5. Can't imagine why I switched from GURPS. It took them 15 years to come out with a 4th edition, as opposed to 2-3 years for WotC.

 

WFRP here I come. I mean really, what's the point? They don't need a new edition, the current one's not broken enough. It's obviously just being treated as acash cow for them to milk now. Well us gamers are generaly penniless students (or ex penniless students) who can't afford to keep buying more copies of the same books over and over again.

 

It appears that they are also adding a (premium) online content subscription.

 

Yep, now they don't want us to buy the game, they want us to rent it from them or be treated like "second class citizens".

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"D&D is enjoyed by millions of players worldwide, while countless more remember it with fond nostalgia miss it but play something similar."

 

That's an odd statement. It sounds as if they consider today's "D&D" to somehow be part of the older game of the same name.

 

Bah. For those who tired of 3E/3.5 a while ago, there is always HackMaster. While plans have been announced for a newer version of it, the publisher has no choice because of, guess what, licensing agreements with WotC, but it will be a couple of years before you see anything.

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@ Haldir

 

At least 99% of all OGL products are useless garbage anyway. And a lot of the Wotc Add-on Books are only marginally better than useless garbage. We still only play with the three core books, the Extra Monster Manuals, and small amounts of content from 1 or 2 other books. The duskblade from PHB 2 was allowed because it's essentially a D&D Red Box elf, and the favored soul was allowed because its basically a divine version of the sorcerer, but I'm pretty sure that's it.

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I'm tired of D&D's constant "new version" releases. They're as bad as Microsoft. <_<

 

 

Like anvil, I haven't been happy with D&D 3rd ed in general, and miss Hero System and GURPS (I prefer GURPS for fantasy as they do magic better than Hero). I think I'll be working with those systems more and more.

 

 

HERO is still alive and kickin'. Fifth Edition Revised is a bit massive, but there's also Sidekick. My favorite RPG system, almost to the point of "you mean there are other RPGs out there?"

 

Lookie here.

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I'm generally of the mindset that 3.0 was huge step up from 2nd edition and 3.5 fixed a lot of the minor problems we had with 3.0. If 4th edition does for D&D what the SWRPG saga edition did for that ruleset, things are looking up.

I agree.

I liked a lot of the changes that 3.0 added.

1.) Getting away from the ridiculously overcomplicated THAC0 system.

2.) Skills and Feats, Skills in previous editions were either useless or nonexistent, while feats help break away from the standard cookie cutter characters.

3.) Ease of Multi-Classing, once again helps break away from the cookie cutter characters, while realizing that an adventurer will most likely pick up a few sets of skills and powers in their adventures.

 

All in All, 3.0 and 3.5 seemed more about personalizing the character you play, a little more work on the mechanics and I'll be happy.

 

Edit:

And While I like GURPS, man, it just takes too long to just pick up and play.

Depending on how easy your GM is it can literally take hours for everyone to create a character.

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You need to get the GURPS character assistant cadaver. It makes Character setup Easy if your GM sets it up correctly.

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I loved moving from AD&D/2nd to 3.0. It finally included customization options and skills - which really appealed to me as the new school of gamer.

 

3.5 seemed like a cash cow and an excuse to placate people who whine on the internet.

 

4.0 looks like a bunch of suits asked each other what "hip" is with the "dudes" these days. So close, but very very far away. Their new gaming license takes away from the fans what the 3.X license gave them after years of T$R's pillaging. The web features seem really good on the surface, but look more like a micropayment/cash grab after a second thought.

 

I LOVED 3.0 and tolerated 3.5. I guess I count among the alienated.

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Also, remember 3.0 was actually released in 2000, with 3.5 released in 2003, so a 2008 release of 4.0 makes it 5 years, which is still pretty good, considering you pay maybe $60-$80 for the core books and play for a very, very long time without the need to spend more cash. (Unlike GW, in which you had to keep buying more minis as the points costs of the armies seem to dwindle each edition. Although, Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a very fun game, why Oh, why did they discontinue that?)

Well worth the money to entertainment value.

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Although, Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a very fun game, why Oh, why did they discontinue that?)

 

There is WFRP 2nd edition you know (published by Green Ronin Publishing under licence from Games Workshop). It's almost as good as the first one (some improvements, some bad bits but mostly good, like dividing the 126 skills into skills & talents due to the active/passive nature of the way they work).

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Also, remember 3.0 was actually released in 2000, with 3.5 released in 2003, so a 2008 release of 4.0 makes it 5 years, which is still pretty good, considering you pay maybe $60-$80 for the core books and play for a very, very long time without the need to spend more cash. (Unlike GW, in which you had to keep buying more minis as the points costs of the armies seem to dwindle each edition. Although, Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a very fun game, why Oh, why did they discontinue that?)

Well worth the money to entertainment value.

 

Well, my 4e High Elves are still "tournament" legal under the latest edition (7e???). Also my Eldar are still relatively unchanged. Some armies really get boned (Wood Elves, despite the fact I really like the current incarnation, really got gimped). I personally think the more figures you can put on the table, the better and more visually appealing the game.

 

Damon.

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Also, remember 3.0 was actually released in 2000, with 3.5 released in 2003, so a 2008 release of 4.0 makes it 5 years, which is still pretty good, considering you pay maybe $60-$80 for the core books and play for a very, very long time without the need to spend more cash. (Unlike GW, in which you had to keep buying more minis as the points costs of the armies seem to dwindle each edition. Although, Warhammer Fantasy RPG was a very fun game, why Oh, why did they discontinue that?)

Well worth the money to entertainment value.

 

Well, my 4e High Elves are still "tournament" legal under the latest edition (7e???). Also my Eldar are still relatively unchanged. Some armies really get boned (Wood Elves, despite the fact I really like the current incarnation, really got gimped). I personally think the more figures you can put on the table, the better and more visually appealing the game.

 

Damon.

Sure and the more money goes into GW's pockets. :lol:

 

My point was $60 -$80 and you're pretty much done, unless you choose to buy supplements and the such.

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