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Frankthedm

D&D 4E seems to be looming ahead.

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It's not a matter of "can we afford it", it's a matter of "do we want to play this game" (D&D or the 'upgrade dance', take your pick)...

Sounds like you have some wierd group dynamics there.

 

I'd look at it this way - you're the GM, and it appears the group is already "forcing" you to play in Forgotten Realms. You all already have 3.5. There's no valid reason to switch, IMO. I'd flat out tell the group if they want me to switch, we play in my home grown campaign, otherwise, we're sticking with 3.5 until I feel like it OR they buy me the necessary books. This doesn't seem unreasonable - it's not like you're making them go out and buy anything - in fact, quite the opposite.

 

Even though when I GM I'm likely to go out and buy lots of new books anyway, I refuse to let my groups force me into buying certain books - they want to be that way, they can buy me the book. Since most people aren't that generous when it comes to spending their gaming budget on other people, the status quo usually stays until I decide to change. And even then, I don't force the change, I ask the group if they're ready. Although, I have been generous enough in the past to buy or offer to buy rule books for people - sometimes if you want someone to try an alternate game system, offering to do so is the best way to get them to to try things out. Of course, I've only made this offer with my two favorite RPG systems - Traveller and WFRP. I have given Warlord rule books as gifts, though.

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I can agree with that. And I also have at least 2 players who are 100% refusing to change, having declared that they will now play non WotC games if this is the way it's going to be.

Has anyone else ever noticed how we humans (or maybe it's just those of us in the US) get worked up about change, and we'll often refuse to change even before we've seen what the changes actually are?

 

I've seen a lot of people post online who are 100% refusing to change to 4.0, but the fact is, we haven't even seen it yet. It will be another, what, 8 months before we do see it? We really don't know what it actually changes, other than the very few snippets WotC has given us.

 

Just an observation.

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Because we love what we have now and nothing could ever possibly be better than this and we'll keep doing it forever.

 

Just like Everquest. That shiny new WoW came and nobody plays it.

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You can always SHARE the books with your friends... If it's something really good, then I'll pick it up too. I've pretty much stopped buying RPG stuff; my money goes to metal models, which seem to always have a use, even if you use other rules.

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Personally I'm not worked up about the change. I'm worked up about the fact that the changes I've seen so far invalidate everything that went before.

 

Hence my previous posts about Hasbro treating D&D as a product to be pushed.

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I can agree with that. And I also have at least 2 players who are 100% refusing to change, having declared that they will now play non WotC games if this is the way it's going to be.

Has anyone else ever noticed how we humans (or maybe it's just those of us in the US) get worked up about change, and we'll often refuse to change even before we've seen what the changes actually are?

 

I've seen a lot of people post online who are 100% refusing to change to 4.0, but the fact is, we haven't even seen it yet. It will be another, what, 8 months before we do see it? We really don't know what it actually changes, other than the very few snippets WotC has given us.

 

Just an observation.

You're not the only ones . Here at one of my FLGS's there is nothing but doom and gloom about "yet another edition" . Even the owner is a bit concerned about it , whether it will sell or will he lots of 3.5 stuff he can't move even thoug he states "that's the nature of the beast" . <_<

I for one am looking forward to it and I been doing RPG's for over 25 years , and there's always something new to try out .

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You're not the only ones . Here at one of my FLGS's there is nothing but doom and gloom about "yet another edition" . Even the owner is a bit concerned about it , whether it will sell or will he lots of 3.5 stuff he can't move even thoug he states "that's the nature of the beast" . <_<

If I were a store owner, I'd be upset. Not that they announced another edition, but that they did so this much in advance. This announcement seems to have killed sales of 3.5 stuff - so what do I fill my shelves with until 4.0 comes out? How much 3.5 stuff am I going to be stuck with?

 

If I were a publisher of 3.5 stuff, I'd be upset too. How upset would be dependant on the new licensing (is it truly OGL or not) and when I could actually start developing and releasing - if I have to wait to see the new edition before I can develop, that's an awful long sales slump.

 

If I were a publisher of a different system, I'd be knocking on the door of every FLGS and encourage them to fill that space with my system, and giving them deals to do so.

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Admittedly, it does hurt the store owners who have a lot of the rules-centric books like the "Complete" series, since those will be a harder sell under a new edition. Fluff-centric books like the campaign settings and such can still be sold (4th Edition will not invalidate much of my Ravenloft Gazetteers, for example).

 

On the other hand, 4th Edition was going to happen eventually, anyway. There is no "best time" for such a thing.

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Sounds like you have some wierd group dynamics there.

You don't know the half of it...

 

And I think that's why you're missing the point. Although I mentioned money in response to Bryan, that was in directed at what he had said. Money is a minor issue with what's going to cause problems with my group (we would share books with the guy who doesn't buy them - and usually do), it's the new system (or the changes) that will cause the problem. The group dynamic works (for all intents and purposes) as it stands now, but I can see the writing on the wall (it's not even as simple as changing systems, since we've discussed that in the past).

 

As for 'forcing' me to play FR, while they do, I also like a fleshed out campaign setting and I liked the continuity when we had multiple DMs. It's not like it was a knock down drag out fight to get me to run it.

 

Bryan, I figured. I was just joshing you...

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One of the reasons they have to make annoucements so far in advance is that based on their projected release date they need to get on the ordering lists for the big bookstore chains. Those chains will start making book orders for next year based on those release dates and they start now.

 

A side note, is that those bestseller lists are often published months in advance based on projected sales from the ordering process. And you thought the gaming industry was whacked.

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One of the reasons they have to make annoucements so far in advance is that based on their projected release date they need to get on the ordering lists for the big bookstore chains. Those chains will start making book orders for next year based on those release dates and they start now.

OMG. While I'm sure a ton of their sales of the basic books will be through the big chain book stores, IMHO, thats hurting the bread and butter of the hobby - the FLGS. Of course, one should expect that now that they're owned by Hasbro.

 

<sigh>

 

Ok, my opinion on 4e is still TBD. However, I've decided that 4.5 or 5e is definately on my boycott list if there is less than 4-5 years between it and 4e.

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Also a fair number of companies that publish supplements already have most of the information on 4e so that they can get their own releases into the pipeline. They, of course, have all signed NDAs on that information so only WOTC is going to be releasing information. I actually think that this time retailers aren't really going to be stuck holding the bag to much. I'm of the mind that a lot of people will be making sure they have all the 3.5 stuff that they need.

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OMG. While I'm sure a ton of their sales of the basic books will be through the big chain book stores, IMHO, thats hurting the bread and butter of the hobby - the FLGS. Of course, one should expect that now that they're owned by Hasbro.

 

That makes sense from Hasbro's point of view. Who moves more product, Amazon/B&N/Borders or Ravenstone Games?

 

Of course, HeyBro has no clue about the FRPG industry.

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That makes sense from Hasbro's point of view. Who moves more product, Amazon/B&N/Borders or Ravenstone Games?

 

Nah, a better question is who moves more: the big chains you mentioned or the major distributors that the FLGSs buy from? :poke:

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That makes sense from Hasbro's point of view. Who moves more product, Amazon/B&N/Borders or Ravenstone Games?

 

Nah, a better question is who moves more: the big chains you mentioned or the major distributors that the FLGSs buy from? :poke:

 

Good point. I'm not that familiar with the wholesale end of it. I never saw the purpose of distributors, other than to be middlemen who often lie (or are blamed for lying). That company went out of business, that product is out of print, etc.

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