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Frankthedm

D&D 4E seems to be looming ahead.

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For those of us not in the loop, when is 4.0 coming? I have only heard that there will be an OGL for it, but I don't know the particulars or the veracity of that.

 

May 2008 IIRC

 

@Lars - Yeah, we're looking at starting a 2nd ed Mutants and Masterminds sessions soon. I started reading through character generation and realized, dammit, I need to use a spreadsheet to track all the math. :lol: Nice and easy play once you have the character, but tracking how every power, feat, etc can add to something, and keeping it under that cap can be a challenge.

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For what it's worth, the last D&D game I enjoyed playing in was AD&D 2nd ed that was run in the original books for Forgotten Realms. I didn't know the Realms at that time and the GM made things fun, non hack-n-slash, and we enjoyed a large amount of roleplay.

 

Since then, while I tried to play other 2nd and 3rd ed games, I just couldn't get into them. Either they were Play by Post (which quickly got old for me, I need a constant-moving table-top environment) or the GM just wasn't that great. I've played a huge variety of RPGs in my 26+ years of gaming, and while D&D does what it does pretty well, and I was excited with 3rd edition bringing in more character customization, it just doesn't "do" it for me anymore.

 

More generalized games, such as GURPS and Hero (yet another plug!) attract me more because I have more say in how my character is built. It's not based on the roll of a die (for stats) but on concept. If I want a fighter with a low strength but who is tactically smart and physcially tough, I can make my character like that without having to peruse rules on what stats HAVE to be where. If I want a paladin who makes an anglerfish look pretty, then I can. They also have rules that give options for the player to make up his or her own spells. Since I tend to homebrew my own worlds as a GM, this gives me the most leeway for generating the world *I* envision, rather than trying to shoehorn my ideas into the existing rules, or changing the rules to fit my needs at the chagrin of the players.

 

Different games for different gamers. Some people love the WoTC changes to D&D, some hate them, and some couldn't care less. I guess I really fall into the third category. I don't hate the rules as I see them as a needed evolution for the game to keep it fresh. Maybe 4th edition will bring a new crop of gamers into the mix by giving them something they've been looking for. All I know is I've spent enough on D&D in the past, and while SD may pick up some of the new books, I don't see myself spending the money that I could use to purchase the single $50 hardbound Hero 5th edition book (as opposed to the $90 for the three Core D&D books) and maybe some extra minis.

 

I will say, though, for what it's worth: Back in the day of AD&D 1st Ed, The Monster Manual, PHB, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II, Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures, and Deities and Demigods were all $20, while the DMG was $30. These costs are firmly entrenched in my memory and this was back in 1981-1982. Considering that none of the books have increased much in price (really, maybe $10 more per book with better artwork and paper quality), I still think they are a good deal in comparison to what we got Way Back When.

 

I'd much rather see a box set of the core rules, maybe at $80 for the MSR price point, to encourage people to upgrade, or even set at $100 with a special edition box of pewter, a Special Edition DM Screen, a Special Edition Module, or a Special Edition Map of Some New World included. They do it for movie trilogies and complete TV Series DVD sets. Why not for RPGs?

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I think I'm going to enjoy it based on what I saw from the WotC site. Race actually matters all the way up, and the different fighter paths based on weapons actually excite the heck out of me.

 

I have many things that I'd like to see added to D&D, and some things I'd like to change. If 4 is more like what I think D&D should be than 3.5, I'll embrace it. If it takes D&D further away from what I'd like to see, I'll become one of the cranky old players who yells about the new edition ruining the game because I can't find enough people willing to play with the 'good' rules.

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I think I'm going to enjoy it based on what I saw from the WotC site. Race actually matters all the way up, and the different fighter paths based on weapons actually excite the heck out of me.

I agree. From what I've read of its new features and design goals, it makes a lot of sense - focusing on what makes the game varied and fun.

 

Ishil

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We've played and liked all versions of D&D to date. And we've made house rules and used them for all versions as well. I don't expect any of this to change with 4.0. I'm sure I'll like it. We'll probably switch to it. The current system is getting a little stale for us, so I'm looking forward to the changes. New blood gets me excited about the game. I don't really feel we'll need any books other than the core 3, so it's not a huge investment. Everyone will get a new PHB, and a few people will also get DMG's and MM's. That's not a huge expense. We're not compulsive buyers who have to have everything WotC puts out. We do have a good collection of minis between 3 of us to field most of our needs, and hopefuly LE will help fill in some gaps and expand that repertoire.

 

I don't mind sending $30-$100 to WotC's way for new books every 3-5 years for a game I enjoy couple times a month. Seems like a small expense.

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Hrmmmm... I just finished watching the whole presentation, and reading all the material they have online. From what I've seen about 4e, the changes to the game itself don't upset me at all (based on previews).

 

The thing that sticks in my craw is that it appears (i said APPEARS) that there will be huge portions of the game that are being hidden behind their subscription service.

 

I really don't like the character generator being hidden behind the subscription service. I'd much rather pay $30-$60 for a piece of software that resides on my computer, and I only have to pay for once. Hopefully some of the third party suppliers of such software will still be able to offer their wares as well.

 

I guess I'll continue my wait and see attitude.

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Very underwhelmed myself. And I was at the announcement, the D&D Q&A (one of the few, since they chose the SMALLEST CONFERENCE ROOM I'VE EVER SEEN at Gen Con - and then sprinkled it with their own people), as well as the DDM and SW Q&A...

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I really don't like the character generator being hidden behind the subscription service. I'd much rather pay $30-$60 for a piece of software that resides on my computer, and I only have to pay for once. Hopefully some of the third party suppliers of such software will still be able to offer their wares as well.

 

Yeah, I'd just wait for a 4e variant of Heroforge. So far ALL of the WOTC character generators I've used have been pretty...mediocre. Unless WOTC aggressively enforces their online IP in a manner similar to TSR in the waning days, I don't see myself using the service. I dislike on-line content for a number of reasons, some good, some bad. But they are my reasons...

 

Damon.

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Is this 'character generation' only for the online portions or is the entire process of character generation tied to the online *ahem* experience?

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Yeah, I'd just wait for a 4e variant of Heroforge. So far ALL of the WOTC character generators I've used have been pretty...mediocre. Unless WOTC aggressively enforces their online IP in a manner similar to TSR in the waning days,

That's what actually has me worried. Since the character generator is behind a subscription, WotC might feel it's in their best interest to shut down all the third party ones by being agressive with their IP rights.

 

That, of course, depends on how/if they actually do the OGL for 4e - I've heard mixed reports on the status of the OGL.

 

An online generator on their servers isn't actually a bad idea - it should actually be easier for them to keep it updated to the rules and fix bugs, add new content, etc. But I don't find that worth $8-12 a month - I'd rather pay something like $1 a month for access, then maybe $0.10 a character.

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Is this 'character generation' only for the online portions or is the entire process of character generation tied to the online *ahem* experience?

It appears to me that it's a little of both. It appears that you can generate and maintain a PC online, but print it out for use in home games, or use the character sheet during online games.

 

They didn't imply that you'll have to have the service in order to generate a character sheet for face to face games either - it appears you can still use the PHB, pencil and paper to generate a PC.

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I remember when they updated to 3.5. Got me kinda pissed. I had just invested in a good amount of D&D stuff and then I come to find out that they want me to buy all new stuff. And after I got the chance to play some of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG I found that I like that system better. So I'll just keep using that.

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