Golden Demon

[Rastl]

Meg, you're running up against the crux of a GD. You want artistic freedom but they want you to stick with their stuff. This is where you have to decide if you want to play in their sandbox.

 

Your love of odd color combinations is diametric to what they want to see on their models. The freehand that fits into their cosmology is what is going to advance. They're looking for models that expand into their universe, not expand on their universe. See the difference?

 

If you like what they're doing and like their universe then you should have fun with this. If you don't like having these restrictions you're not going to like painting the competition piece because you're always going to find something you want to do but can't.

 

You have to make this decision as an artist. Can you be happy working within the parameters? If not, then don't bother. If so, have at!

[Cerridwyn1st]

Oh and Mel the reason I'm looking at going to Baltimore is because that is home for me. All of my family is in the area so I wouldn't have to worry about a hotel. I may think about Atlanta but I would rather go to Baltimore.

 

Eh, just a thought. You could always go to Atlanta to check things out and then enter in Baltimore. Or enter in Atlanta and if you don't place, then get some critique, spiff up your entry, and enter again in Baltimore. Wouldn't be the first time that's been done.

[fieldarchy]

Rastl,

 

Don't get me wrong I want to compete in GD so it's one of those things that yeah I'll be happy competing with them. It's just a personal preference of mine, as an artist, that I think there was more freedom on certain things. I understand their rules and why they have them. It's not enough to keep me from competing. I figure at the very least I can have a great time painting the LOTR stuff! I really can't wait to take a look at some of that. I really want to do some shirelings! YAY for Hobbits!

[Heisler]

The Atlanta Games Day has been cancelled. There is only Baltimore, Chicago and LA now.

[Joe Kutz]

Rastl,

 

Don't get me wrong I want to compete in GD so it's one of those things that yeah I'll be happy competing with them. It's just a personal preference of mine, as an artist, that I think there was more freedom on certain things. I understand their rules and why they have them. It's not enough to keep me from competing. I figure at the very least I can have a great time painting the LOTR stuff! I really can't wait to take a look at some of that. I really want to do some shirelings! YAY for Hobbits!

 

If you want freedom...I would avoid the LoTR stuff. There you have one overly paranoid about there IP company licensing to another overly paranoid about there IP. It ends up being like dealing with the overly zealous historical painters ("The buttons on that jacket are supposed to be brass - not gold! You suck."). While it might be fun to paint them for yourself, or for friends...the competition side of things is a bit rediculous for those.

 

From what I've seen, the most flexibility lies within the 40K setting. At least with them, if you don't find something you like - you can create your own, since it has a better chance of not interfering with the GW universe at large. More work, but if you generate a good back story for it...you can create your own sub-culture (The core of the parent culture needs to remain untainted though, but you can have your own twists on it without problems).

[Heisler]

Simple basing is sometimes more effective than something elaborate basing. Take a look at Doug's Slayer Sword winner at LA, I bet he has less than 5 hours on the base.

 

I have to reiterate too that the symbology is very important. I have seen the Jeremie's runner-up for the slayer sword at Chicago. My own opinion (which matters little most of the time) is that his painting was superior to the winner's. But the back of the Harliquin's cloak featured an amazing image of the Hindu god Kali as well as the symbols from 20 different rock n roll bands; The Stones, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and the Who just to name a few of them. I'm convinced he didn't not win because the symbology used fell outside of the GW story.

 

If you come up to Genghis Con in February I'm sure Doug (1st Marshal) would be happy to trot out his Space Marine for you and Lili is always happy to give plenty of GW oriented advice. You can then grill not one but two people that have won Demon Gold and Best in Show at a GD.

[Wren]

I was interested to see this thread pop up because I've been thinking about a lot of the same things Meg has, for the same reason. I'm not a mini game player. (I've got some Warlord armies I'll get around to some day...) I'm not particularly inspired by most GW models. (I do like a lot of the LotR stuff, though.) I don't know anything about the fluff and I'm not all that interested in learning it. (I'm particularly not interested in paying GW tons of money for books I'd have to make time to read to learn it. ;->) But I've started to sell some of my stuff, and getting my name known more (or at all) could only help with that. I don't think I'm the only person who's seen minis painted very well but by not particularly well-known artists go for a lot less than minis of equal quality painted by well-known artists. It's a reality of selling anything - a lot of buyers are buying the prestige of the brand as much as the actual item.

 

Flawed as they may, GDs are the painting venue with the largest recognition factor. Winning entries being published in a widely available magazine probably has a lot to do with that, and also the fact that the contest is held in several different countries. I consider ReaperCon and Gen Con painting contests to be painters' contests, with painter judges using clearly defined and purely artistic criteria. I have had some minor success at Gen Con's contest and placed Best in Show at Reaper this year. Both mean a lot to me and encourage me about my growth as a painter. However, I don't think those titles have had too much impact on what the mini world at large thinks of me. I think I saw the most discussion on various forums of the Gen Con painting results this year than any of the previous four, and most of that was about a couple of people whining about professionals being allowed to enter, very little of it about the actual entries and the people who painted them. Far less discussion than I've seen about just about any GD. Far fewer people clamouring to see pictures than I've seen for just about any GD. I'm not criticizing the planners of Gen Con or ReaperCon, I think they've done a great job, but it's hard to compete in people's minds with something that's been going on as long as GD and has major off-line publicity as well as online.

 

I've got a few fans of my painting, and a few friends who like to catch up with me at the cons and so on, but realistically speaking I know I'm probably not even on the first rung of the ladder of being a 'name'. I agree with Mengu about the value of recognition from your peers, but I don't seem to be doing very well at that, either. I've been to four Gen Cons and two ReaperCons in the past four years taking at least six classes at each event in addition to entering the contests, and honestly I don't think half the painting crowd even remembers me from one event to the next. So since there was a GD held fairly close to where I live, it seemed like an idea to think about entering. But once I made that decision, I got all stuck on what the heck models could I paint that I liked but were still current enough to interest GD judges and what fluff did I need to know and all the stuff Meg's asking about. So I was happy to see this thread until I got to Heisler's post about Atlanta being cancelled. Since that's the one that was close to me, I guess the decision has been made for me and I can go back to being completely obscure but painting what I want. ;->

 

I'll be interested to follow how things go for you, Meg, and wish you loads of luck with it! Looks like you'll have lots of support and advice, and I imagine that'll help a lot.

[fieldarchy]

Wren,

 

Nice to know you understand exactly where I'm coming from. See, I've got an ok customer base and it is growing slowly. However, I probably can't realistically ebay and expect to make money unless more people know my name via awards. Hence, why I'm doing GD next year.

 

Wren, I will let you know how it goes. I'm thinking this next year will be devoted to painting competitions for the most part.

[paintminion]

Quit talking about it and get back to painting! You'll need the time to finish all of these contest entries!

 

And on a side note, if anyone can recommend a magazine where I can publish the Gen Con entries, hop to it! I've approached many mags and gotten zilcho on the idea. I've been working on this two years now.

[dks]

I won a few Demons when there was only one contest in the US and it was in Baltimore -- 1992 and 1993. (Now, my entries wouldn't have made first cut.) Still, for a few years after that, people recognized my name and figures because they had seen the coverage in White Dwarf.

 

In 1992, entries in the national contest had to qualify at a GW store, so Mom drove me three hours down to Philadelphia, the closest store to us. My Great Harlequin didn't win the Single Figure nomination, but I sold the figure on the spot to a collector; my Genestealer Cult (of Slaanesh) 40K Army and Blood Angels Command group did win, so the guys at the Philly store took them down to Baltimore the next month and entered them on my behalf. They won 1st place 40K Army and 2nd place Command Group. Neither of them was especially original -- basically minor variations on the studio paint jobs -- but they had nice banners. I was billed as "Derek Schubert of Philadelphia" in the White Dwarf coverage. Mark Dance (Canadian) won the Sword that year with a nice Chaos Centaur, and his Command Group (Slaaneshi Chaos Marines, in pink armor) beat mine. The guy at the Philadelphia store told me later that he overheard two judges saying at the end of the day, "Hey, why didn't we give the sword to that Genestealer Army?" "Because we ruled out any armies or command groups in advance." But the guy from Philly was probably just trying to make me feel better.

 

Games Day 1993 had direct entries, so I drove down to Baltimore with my college roommate and entered Single Figure (a Terminator from the Luna Wolves -- the future Sons of Horus -- which I intended to use in a diorama that I never finished), 40K army (a larger Blood Angel force, including a huge banner, some scouts, and an Imperial Robot painted in scout colors), and Fantasy Army (High Elves, painted specifically as an entry, since I never played WHFB). They won 3rd, 2nd, and 1st, respectively. The Terminator was clean but rather boring, and I didn't expect it to place. An Eldar army beat my Marines; Eldar were newer while I was using plastic beaky Marines and mostly older models, which may have been a factor. My High Elves included a converted general on an imperial pegasus painted black, a head-swapped sorceress on a unicorn, spearmen with green-metallic scalemail and a banner indicating that they were the "Fire Drakes", some archers (the new models), sea elf wardancers (wood elves painted with blue or green hair instead of red or blond) with a small banner ("Sea Devils"), and a sea elf ballista with a twisted-wire bowstring added... so, a lot of customization and unique identities. I don't know whether those elves would be passed over as "not canonical" now, but they didn't use any real-world imagery. I was proud of them and glad that they won.

 

I abandoned GW not long after that, because I couldn't afford the price increases or revised set of rules, but I've been considering entering a Games Day again, just to see how I would do.

 

Where was I, again? Oh yes, I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time...

 

Derek

[fieldarchy]

Sue, I'm painting! I swear it! I got home today after work (love my 4 hour Fridays!) and started painting! Just check my Ramelle thread . . . honest I'm painting

 

preFUNk and I are going to GW tomorrow afternoon so I can check out what's available. I've got to get the last of my commissions off my plate before starting on some serious contest painting. In the mean time I'm trying to bump up my skill levels on the next three Reaper Commissions I'm doing.

[PurityThruFire]

Meg, not trying to tell you what to do or anything but I think you ought to check out the 40K Eldar stuff.

They are very colorful and the models are a lot of fun to paint.

Personally, I think they would fit right in with your style.

Do me a favor and at least check them out

[Joe Kutz]

Meg, not trying to tell you what to do or anything but I think you ought to check out the 40K Eldar stuff.

They are very colorful and the models are a lot of fun to paint.

Personally, I think they would fit right in with your style.

 

And if they only weren't cone heads, they would be amoung my favorite minis...even though they are GW.

[kristof65]

I think the Golden Demons are so recognized as THE painting award is because GW has put tons of time and dollars to make them so. As much as I dislike GW, they have done an awful lot to promote painting and converting minis as a hobby in and of itself, and the Golden Demons and the Slayer sword awards were some of the things on that path.

 

And they named their awards as well. Does any other painting award have a name besides the Demons and Reaper's Sophies? If they do, they aren't promoted enough. Almost everyone who has ever played a GW game has heard about the Demons. That gives the Demons an almost Oscar like status among mini gamers and hobbyists.

 

So I can see the draw for someone like Meg to want to enter the contest.

 

 

Good luck Meg - from everything I've heard and seen, you will really have to do your research on the GW fluff - that's probably your biggest weakness right now.

[fieldarchy]

Meg, not trying to tell you what to do or anything but I think you ought to check out the 40K Eldar stuff.

They are very colorful and the models are a lot of fun to paint.

Personally, I think they would fit right in with your style.

Do me a favor and at least check them out

 

 

will do PTF!