Golden Demon II

[fieldarchy]

Anne put together a very nice binder that includes the Golden Demon results of several of the contests over the past 9 years. I'm noticing that in the more recent years some of the results that have placed are not that great. While others area fantabulous!!!!!! Has anyone noticed that there seems to be a huge range in level of painting skill and what will win?

 

I'm looking at a couple entries right now that took bronze in Chicago 05 and I can do a better job than those painters . . . most definitely. I mean some of these entries are really craptastic in my opinion for a competition such as Golden Demon.

[Joe Kutz]

Yes, the actual skill of the painters will vary a lot...but it isn't entirely a painting contest.

 

Popularity and the phase of the moon have a lot to do with it as well. If you take a look at White Dwarf issues that match up to the time of the results being published...you will also see that quite often the GD winner painted something that just had a Codex released (or it is a new mini that was recently released).

 

Your chances of winning do seem to go up with visibility. If you compete locally as well as in the big contests...they will go ahead and take special notice of you (more of their minis being painted is good for GW's bottom line).

[Rodnik]

It just depends on the category, and how many folks decide to enter that category...which is part of the competition, I guess. There are some that I've seen 4 models in a cat, and the following year that same cat will see 15 models.

As a general rule, you'll see the better quality stuff (and the most entries) in the single categories. Some categories are consistently small---which, obviously, provide the best opportunity for a trophy--if that's what you're hunting.

 

Also, GW, (at least here in the US) are not known for their flattering photographs----and it's easy to lose perspective. I've seen some models "lose their luster" just because of the picture quality. At the contests, the models are judged "in hand" and usually in bad lighting.....so, that comes into play as well. I've seen models that I personally thought would place "hands down" not even make the cut.

 

It's really hit or miss, I think. But, if you put good time into good paint, you'll have the best chances you can have. I wouldn't over-analyze it too much. Just find something you like and paint it up the best you can. You'll do fine.

K.

[fieldarchy]

Thanks for the vote of confidence . . . Well I'm making my assessment based on photos of some of the single category minis as well as groups. It just seems that on one page you'll have an astoundingly good mini but then other categories are just horrendous. I dunno seemed to be some variation in what you can do to win a trophy. This is going to be a challenge to myself and also a learning experience. I also need Anne and Jen to kick my hiney while I'm doing this!

 

Oh and is it really true that you have to use their equivalent colors? You can't just use Reaper's paints, they have to match GW at the very least?

[kristof65]

Golden Demon's aren't just about the paint jobs - it's knowing the fluff surrounding your entry, and correctly guessing when choosing it what they'll probably be pushing at the time of the contest as well. And then there is just the simple "wow" factor for the judges - the more judges you wow with your entry (not just painting skill, but idea, a particular detail, etc), the better you'll do. And that can vary a lot between contests because of the different judges. There is at least as much research and knowledge into a winning GD entry as there is paint skill - and as you've seen, sometimes more.

 

That's why I stated in your other thread that your knowledge of the fluff would probably be your biggest weakness, since you aren't a GW player. But that's easier to overcome than paint skills - just do your research, and choose wisely. You'll do ok. A lot of the other GD winners aren't regular GW game players either.

[SaintRigger]

Photography can be kinda scketchy too. I've seen quite a few of the winners in person and honestly, the magazine photos don't do them justice.

 

 

You can use whatever colors you want - There are a few winners who use craft paints. Many use reapers and vallejo etc.

[fieldarchy]

So it doesn't have to be GW colors? That's what I heard that if it's anything but GW it will not be looked at.

[Heisler]

I'm pretty sure that the Slayer winner at LA this year used very little if any GW paint. There really is no way to tell from looking at a piece what brand of paint was used on it. (Okay Anne might be able to tell). Just PM 1st Marshal (Doug Jones) and ask him what he used. You could PM Lili as well and find out what she used (Keshley).

[fieldarchy]

Ok that's what I thought but I had heard otherwise. That posed some concern for me . . . as I don't want my palette limited.

[Lord Wehrmacht]

Meg,

 

That is the one question I was never able to 100% confirm. "Does it matter what paint we use" when I was working for GW. From what I can tell, I don't think it does. I doubt very much they will put one of those fancy articles in WD on how ya painted it without citadel paints being used though!

 

 

btw... is it my imagination, and I am sick right now so it might be, what's the deal with the posts in this topic system for the board now? Not a big fan to be honest.. maybe its just one of my settings all screwed up.

 

 

LW

[Cerridwyn1st]

To make things more confusing, the Vallejo Game Color range is based in the Citadel line, with names that just barely keep them out of a copyright infringement lawsuit. There are many colors in the Reaper line that are very close. So it would be difficult to say what brand of paint is on the model, unless they were done entirely with Vallejo Model Colors that exist in no other range.

[fieldarchy]

I just asked Jen and she said that the colors need to keep with the universe but it doesn't matter what the brand is. Here's her email response actually:

 

>Meg's Question:

> And I've heard that you have to use colors from the GW line or

> their equivalents? Is that true or can I use whatever colors/paint

> I want?

 

Jen's Answer:

I think what you may have heard (or what people meant to say) is

that colors should be keeping with GW tradition. If you paint an

Ultramarine, he should be recognizably Ultramarine blue. If you

paint a goblin, he doesn't have to be Goblin Green, but it should be

pretty close. A purple-skinned Orc will not be received well. Dark

Elves painted like Drow would not either, since they're pale in GW

iconography. Departures from tradition have only worked well when

the entrant has a complete command of the fluff and has found a

*reason* for the unusual color that's comprehensible to judges, and

the average GW fan. It's a fine balance. LOTR models--don't try to

depart from the movie imagery. Trust me.

 

In short, I would keep color schemes within spitting distance of the

'official' color. You *can* go a little darker or lighter, a little

more muted or a slightly different hue, so a painter can usually find

a palette that works for him/her. Look on CMON and search online to

see what other people have done with the same model.

 

You can use whatever paint you like, of course. Nobody paints with

Citadel. ;-)

[keshley]

A purple-skinned Orc will not be received well.

 

Eh... You can get away with painting a purple-skin Orc if you do a night scene with purple light source. Just an idea... <shrug>

 

You can use whatever paint you like, of course. Nobody paints with

Citadel. ;-)

 

In the US, Citadel paints are not well accepted. In Europe, however, Citadel paints are widely used, including Prince August, which is a private label for Vallejo Model Color. I once was asked by a kid about the paints I used in front of GW staff in GDLA 2004, and I told him that I used Vallejo paints. They didn't seem to care. As I stated in your other Golden Demon post, they don't care how you painted the model, except that it has to be GW model and no other manufacturer parts attached to it.

 

I now own about 20 Citadel paints and learning how to use them. I do like the vibrant color of Citadel colors. None beat their Blood Red and their Yellow so far and my favorite NMM triad: Bestial Brown, Snakebite Leather and Bubonic Brown.

 

 

Cheers,

Lili

[fieldarchy]

Thanks Lili.

[Dragon Forge]

Ok that's what I thought but I had heard otherwise. That posed some concern for me . . . as I don't want my palette limited.

 

How could they tell what manufactures paint you used..do a paint scrapeing and analize it? No you can pretty much use what ever manufactures paint you want on your models, whats more important is that you paint a high quality model that fits with in the Games Workshop universe if in fact your entering a GW Golden Demon

 

Also I think a 60 color palet is plenty enough paint to paint a winning miniature with. In fact Ive seen more than one winning entry do it with a 20 color palet or less. Don't get me wrong..I love paint..I may be one of the largest paint whores around.. Ive got more paint than any sane person should have..yet I still find my self limited to the same 20-30 color palet or even less. I know Reaper, Vallejo, P3, GW Foundry...and so on are in the business to sell paint but having 60 plus triads of paint does not make you a better painter..or one that wins contests. Some of the best painted miniatures Ive ever seen were by Derek Schubert and contained 3-4 colors.

 

Get this.. this summer sitting in a painting class by Jeremie Bonamant I learned how to create and paint flesh tones.. with out a single bottle of paint with the word flesh in it..it was all done by mixing paint.. amazing..

 

What Im trying to get at, is winning contests isnt about having the best brand of paints, using the current styles, having the ideal medium mixture or having the latest miniature releases. Its all about good painting and using the materials you ave available to their best ability.For example Scott Bowser won his first slayer sword in Baltimore with Apple Barrel Paints, what most here would conside poor quality paints.

 

My advice to you Meg is pick a category your most comfortable with, choose some models and talk with people whos opinions you feel matter and get the proper information to make your entry shine. Then sit down and paint.

 

As to what ultimately wins the day of the show..it can only be what showed up. So if you feel a winner in a certain year was of poor quality.. well thats what showed up this year. Ive always said the quality of the Golden Demons in the US began to get thinned down ad GW added more shows. If you just had one big show you wuld see a much higher level of entries. Theres only so many people who paint, divide them by that many shows and it just means a smaller turn out. One of the things we tried to do with thr whole "Team North America" and the Primarch project at Chicago Demons was to bring attention to painting and the level it could achieve in North America. And guess what It got noticed. Were already hearing about more people who want to come to Chicago next year now knowing that we intend on repeating with a new project. Many of the Team Montreal painters are now talking of coming down next year for Chicago after the success Mathieu Fontaine had and the report he returned with at how well he was welcomed and accepted at that show.. So in my opinion Chicago 2008 could very well be one of the best shows in the US in the last 10 years and I hope it brings out the best..especially many people from this list like Anne, Doug Jones, Jen and Liliana ..So Meg if you want to test your skills.. come to Chicago in July ;)

 

Jeff Wilhelm