Jump to content

It's OK to paint like crap...


matsumoto
 Share

Recommended Posts

A gallery of what Famous Pro Painters will actually game with would probably go far to dispel some of the insecurities of the Average Player. ::P:

 

--Jen

A new contest, everyone does a unit for a game (choosen before the competition) and everyone has say 5-10 hours to prep paint and base the entire unit (minimum 7 figures)for actual game play.. Would be interesting to see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I've been racking my brain for about fifteen minutes, trying to think of a Famous Pro Painter who *isn't* aware of the differences between army painting and display/competition painting. Or who feels that gaming models should be painted with the same standards and techniques as the latter. Can't come up with one. :huh: It's aggravating when I hear these attitudes at local stores or events, because people who play with that one snobbish bad apple think that most, if not all, dedicated painters must be like that.

 

If I'm asked for advice, it helps *immensely* to know your intents. You ask, 'How do I highlight a mini?' If you want to turn out twenty figures in a few hours, with one-coat coverage, you'll get a different response than if you want to enter that mini in a competition. I'll try to make it clear that this is how *I* like to highlight minis in each case, and that other people will have other suggestions. There are people who want Devastating Critiques ::P:, and there are people who just want to hear that they're heading in the right direction. (Sometimes it's the same person, at different times!) Teaching painting classes has taught me to ask for background I'd never have thought of asking about otherwise. Perhaps some of the intimidation and resentment is due to miscommunications of this sort.

 

I *helped* Anne basecoat and wash one of those ugly armies of hers. Dip'n'flick is a perfectly legitimate technique in my eyes when you need to get a bunch of little metal guys on the table. A gallery of what Famous Pro Painters will actually game with would probably go far to dispel some of the insecurities of the Average Player. ::P:

 

--Jen

 

 

Who said table top minis should be painted to display standard? In fact the people being accused of saying that said exactly the opposite of that. What people said is that they would rather play against painted armies at any level than against lead or primered minis not that they would not. That was twisted into "would not" and repeated enough it became a fact. I for one have helped dozens of people learn to paint minis and I love to see people pick up their own style be it clean and sharp or loose and dirty. I've got a friend who's just gawd awful and there ain't no other way to say it but he paints his figs and has a good time and sometimes gets a bit better. At the game table I like that more than a grey horde and one display general. That's just my prefference. That's not saying I won't play against that kind of army I just don't enjoy it as much. Sorry. That's just a fact. I also think it's fair to have painted only events if that's what the person putting on the event wants.

 

It would be nice to see a gallery of what the top end display painters play with but where is this gallery? It's also nice to know some of those people play and paint armies to a lesser level. It seems the way some people talk that contest painters don't ever just paint to play because every time they pick up a brush they are going for masterwork. I've been around long enough to know whats display and what's table top but new painters don't always know this and sometimes when I help people learn to paint they think I'm full of it to suggest it. They also refuse to learn the basics and want to do stuff that requires crazy ammounts of brush control that you just don't pick up after a few minis because it takes practice. The only people I've seen pick up brush control fast are people who come to the hobby with it. But some of those who don't think they can skip the basics and practice and go straight into top shelf if they get the right paints, brushes, and spend 20-80 hours on each minis. In other words they want to go straight past learning to sketch into creating materworks. When they can't do that they blame their teacher. That attitude also gets frustraiting as do critiques that assume all minis are for display. Yes communication could be better all around. Explaining stylistic choices even those based on time and efficiency is legitimate especially for table top and necissary too. It is not making excuses nor is it asking only for affirmation. I know you know this because I've seen you say it before. And Ann as well and lots of display painters all of whom know you can't paint armies to that quality in a reasonable ammount of time but some times you have to show people or they don't get it.

 

In the end I feel I can learn a lot about painting minis from any level of painter and I have. I can't learn much from people who don't paint at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A gallery of what Famous Pro Painters will actually game with would probably go far to dispel some of the insecurities of the Average Player. ::P:

 

--Jen

A new contest, everyone does a unit for a game (choosen before the competition) and everyone has say 5-10 hours to prep paint and base the entire unit (minimum 7 figures)for actual game play.. Would be interesting to see.

 

 

I'm currently involved in a unit painting league (min 5 models) and it's doing a lot to re-invigorate my interest in painting for the table.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're being a bit unfair with that statement, because I don't think that that is ALWAYS looking for affirmation.

 

I'm not sure how it can be "unfair"---it's my critique/advice, and I can offer it to whom I choose..and for whatever reason I choose.. ::D:

All I can say is that every time I've experienced a statement similar to this, it has been exactly that. Regardless, that's one of the reasons that I don't offer directed critique, or teach, in a public forum any more....and probably never will again...

I have serious students that come to the house, and other folks that solicit me directly, and I prefer it that way.

 

But, now that I've read a few other posts here, I think I missed the original point of the post----so, back to the originally scheduled program... ::D:

 

Cheers!

Kev

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I don't like to play games with a grey horde...

 

... - throw down the grey hordes - ...

 

...At the game table I like that more than a grey horde...

 

Dang. Now I know why I can't get a game going around here: my forum name. But, then again..."Say it once, say it twice...it's Show Time!" [/betelgeuse]

 

:huh:::P:::):::D::lol:

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the waffles.

 

 

Okay, so it's my turn to post while loopy on cold medicine. We now return you to your regularly scheduled spirited debates. Enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I don't like to play games with a grey horde...

 

... - throw down the grey hordes - ...

 

...At the game table I like that more than a grey horde...

 

Dang. Now I know why I can't get a game going around here: my forum name. But, then again..."Say it once, say it twice...it's Show Time!" [/betelgeuse]

 

:huh:::P:::):::D::lol:

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the waffles.

 

 

Okay, so it's my turn to post while loopy on cold medicine. We now return you to your regularly scheduled spirited debates. Enjoy.

 

 

LOL! Umm sorry man of course I wasn't talking about Mr. Grey Hord but rather my grey hord which has been giveing me the evil eye with every post in this thread. Back to work. ::D:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I don't like to play games with a grey horde...

 

... - throw down the grey hordes - ...

 

...At the game table I like that more than a grey horde...

 

Dang. Now I know why I can't get a game going around here: my forum name. But, then again..."Say it once, say it twice...it's Show Time!" [/betelgeuse]

 

:huh:::P:::):::D::lol:

 

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the waffles.

 

 

Okay, so it's my turn to post while loopy on cold medicine. We now return you to your regularly scheduled spirited debates. Enjoy.

 

 

LOL! Umm sorry man of course I wasn't talking about Mr. Grey Hord but rather my grey hord which has been giveing me the evil eye with every post in this thread. Back to work. ::D:

 

I was TOTALLY talking about Mr. GreyHorde!!!

 

Yeah - I said it! Throw down the GreyHorde! :lol:

 

"Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified? "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been racking my brain for about fifteen minutes, trying to think of a Famous Pro Painter who *isn't* aware of the differences between army painting and display/competition painting. Or who feels that gaming models should be painted with the same standards and techniques as the latter. Can't come up with one. :huh: It's aggravating when I hear these attitudes at local stores or events, because people who play with that one snobbish bad apple think that most, if not all, dedicated painters must be like that.

I've never actually encountered that attitude from any of the famous or semi-famous painters I've met. Nope, I used to encounter it from the guys who happen to be among the best painters in their group, but had no real outside reference to compare to save tiny pics in White Dwarf, and who's work wouldn't hold a candle to at least half the painters on this board.

But some of those who don't think they can skip the basics and practice and go straight into top shelf if they get the right paints, brushes, and spend 20-80 hours on each minis. In other words they want to go straight past learning to sketch into creating materworks. When they can't do that they blame their teacher.

I understand what you're saying, but they aren't the people I'm talking about not scaring away. There are people out there who look at that masterwork army, and think "I can't ever do that, so why try?" They know that they can't pick up a brush and spend even 80 hours of work on a single fig to get something even half as good. So they quit before they start. Those are the people I want to see my crap, so that they can say "Hey, he's having fun and his stuff looks like $%^& - I can do that!"

 

Kind of like when a little kid is chasing you - you know you can sprint away from them and get away, just because you have longer legs. But sometimes you want to let them catch you, just for the sheer enjoyment you'll see on their face.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who said table top minis should be painted to display standard? In fact the people being accused of saying that said exactly the opposite of that. What people said is that they would rather play against painted armies at any level than against lead or primered minis not that they would not. That was twisted into "would not" and repeated enough it became a fact.

 

Gotcha. Reading comprehension not so good before caffeine kicks in. :blush:

 

--Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand what you're saying, but they aren't the people I'm talking about not scaring away. There are people out there who look at that masterwork army, and think "I can't ever do that, so why try?" They know that they can't pick up a brush and spend even 80 hours of work on a single fig to get something even half as good. So they quit before they start. Those are the people I want to see my crap, so that they can say "Hey, he's having fun and his stuff looks like $%^& - I can do that!"

 

Kind of like when a little kid is chasing you - you know you can sprint away from them and get away, just because you have longer legs. But sometimes you want to let them catch you, just for the sheer enjoyment you'll see on their face.

 

I have to confess that I tend to forget some people react like this. Being reminded of it is a good thing. When I started painting, I didn't think I'd ever produce anything decent, but all those pictures of McVey's paint jobs in the army books were a challenge, not a deterrent. ( Telling me I'm not capable of something is a good way to motivate me to work harder. Always has been, in all pursuits. Most gamers I know are like this!) For a long, long time, I just did not realize that high-level work (not necessarily my own) could intimidate people. When it did dawn on me was when I started showing those first army pieces of mine. ::P:

 

This is the very first piece I sold on eBay, when my painting and conversion skills had been honed by all the army work.

 

post-750-1190292434.jpeg

 

Here's another early one.

 

post-750-1190292238.jpg

 

I'll put up some more when I have a few minutes... ::D:

 

--Jen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who said table top minis should be painted to display standard? In fact the people being accused of saying that said exactly the opposite of that. What people said is that they would rather play against painted armies at any level than against lead or primered minis not that they would not. That was twisted into "would not" and repeated enough it became a fact.

 

Gotcha. Reading comprehension not so good before caffeine kicks in. :blush:

 

--Jen

 

Well I've certainly said a few unfair things here myself but Kristof is correct some of this is spilling over from an ongoing "discussion" about pre-painted plastics which I doubt is ever going to get resolved but which I assumed had ended with an agree to disagree. Guess not. ::(: So today I'm trying to make my postings about painting and not who gets "victimized" by who's painting/playing style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand what you're saying, but they aren't the people I'm talking about not scaring away. There are people out there who look at that masterwork army, and think "I can't ever do that, so why try?" They know that they can't pick up a brush and spend even 80 hours of work on a single fig to get something even half as good. So they quit before they start. Those are the people I want to see my crap, so that they can say "Hey, he's having fun and his stuff looks like $%^& - I can do that!"

 

Kind of like when a little kid is chasing you - you know you can sprint away from them and get away, just because you have longer legs. But sometimes you want to let them catch you, just for the sheer enjoyment you'll see on their face.

 

I have to confess that I tend to forget some people react like this. Being reminded of it is a good thing. When I started painting, I didn't think I'd ever produce anything decent, but all those pictures of McVey's paint jobs in the army books were a challenge, not a deterrent. ( Telling me I'm not capable of something is a good way to motivate me to work harder. Always has been, in all pursuits. Most gamers I know are like this!) For a long, long time, I just did not realize that high-level work (not necessarily my own) could intimidate people. When it did dawn on me was when I started showing those first army pieces of mine. ::P:

 

This is the very first piece I sold on eBay, when my painting and conversion skills had been honed by all the army work.

 

post-750-1190292434.jpeg

 

Here's another early one.

 

post-750-1190292238.jpg

 

I'll put up some more when I have a few minutes... ::D:

 

--Jen

 

 

I think I remember seeing that Barbarian Queen before. Last night I started digging out what was left of minis I painted back in middle school. They were heavily abused but I'm gonna post some pics of them if I can find time today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...