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Human species "may split in two"


alchemist
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CuCu, love that movie! It's so great! It was the first movie in a long time that I actually sat down to watch without moving the entire time. Usually I'm up and about doing something while I have the TV on. This I just had to watch.

 

kristof, I mean terraforming planets though. I mean I don't think we will really have the technology to terraform mars for instance. Or any other planet in our solar system. I didn't necessarily mean terraforming the earth but terraforming other planets to make them habitable by humans.

 

FTL, yeah that's a long shot!

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I think I'm more inclined to believe we'll suffer a "genetic reset" at some point...where genetic drift will pose a greater impact on the surviving alleles. That is to say, a catastrophic event will limit the effective breeding pool. At that point, a random genetic event has a much greater effect on the species than it would today (aka founder effect). So, in short---we have absolutely no idea what we'll be like in 10,000 years---because there's absolutely no way to predict when a "culling of the herd" will take place.

 

Not to mention, that same "culling event" would potentially result in another dark age....thus resetting our technological advancements as well....

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kristof, I mean terraforming planets though. I mean I don't think we will really have the technology to terraform mars for instance. Or any other planet in our solar system. I didn't necessarily mean terraforming the earth but terraforming other planets to make them habitable by humans.

I didn't say we'd ever have the technology to terraform other planets, I'd said it was more likely than interstellar travel. If I had to bet on one or the other, I'd bet on terraforming. And even though I'm saying we might not ever have the tech, I think we will at some point. Why?

 

Well, look at what we're already capable of. All it takes to transform the desert around Dubai into a thriving city is water. Tranforming Mars into a habitable planet for humanity doesn't really require that much - more oxygen in the atmosphere, a bit denser atmosphere, water and a bit of warmth. Of those, the hardest to deal with on a planet wide scale is the denser atmosphere. That's not to say that the logistics of getting warmth, oxygen and water in enough quantities to Mar's isn't going to be difficult, but it's not out of reach, given the advances of technology we've made in the last 20, 50, 100, and 200 years.

 

Now, even if we do acquire the tech to make it possible, I'm not convinced it will ever be economical or worth doing. Building huge domed cities is probably more cost effective until the population densities start to reach earth like proportions and/or the cost of terraforming tech comes down to a point where it's cheaper and faster to transform a whole planet than it is to build a few thousand domes.

 

Then again, what's really the point in building the world's tallest building, either? Once the tech gets close, I'm sure someone will want to try it just because they can. Especially if we ever happen upon FTL that gives us more candidate planets to try it out on.

 

Rodnik - Your idea of a genetic reset will mean a much more likely chance of divergence if we do begin inhabiting other planets, as any type of catastrophe is most likely going to be limited to the planet.

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Rodnik - Your idea of a genetic reset will mean a much more likely chance of divergence if we do begin inhabiting other planets, as any type of catastrophe is most likely going to be limited to the planet.

 

Yep..not my idea though...fairly well-known theories around it. And yea...if we did manage to spread the population to other planets, it would theoretically improve the survivability of the race overall---through redundancy, but not resiliency (natural selection, for example). Considering--to your point---that a global impact would only impact one globe at a time....so to speak.

It's interesting to speculate how the different planets would evolve as well...considering that terraforming is usually limited to the basic needs----so, even with terraforming------after a period of time, it's possible that the race of one planet could potentially not survive in the environment of another terraformed planet....

Take something as simple as a gravitational difference.....or atmospheric pressure...or the like....

All have the capability to cause some very severe effects, even in the slightest of changes.

 

Good stuff...

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Rodnik - Your idea of a genetic reset will mean a much more likely chance of divergence if we do begin inhabiting other planets, as any type of catastrophe is most likely going to be limited to the planet.

 

I was thinking the residing in non-Earth locations would be likely to result in divergence even with out a catastrophe. One would imagine that we would start to develope adaptations to allow us to live more easily in our new environments. I don't beleive that teraforming would ever produce an exact duplicate to Earth. Not to mention the adaptaions we might accuire if we have segments of our population who were lived out their lives space-born.

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the sad thing is, i think this guy has some bouyancy...

 

take into account alot of very moralistic and excessively intelligent folk actually tend to fall off the genetic map unless "properly motivated".... thus, count elitism by genetics out, unless way super rare...

(unless a certain ethnicity decides to become a new master race....*shivers in fear*)

 

take into account there are plenty of Men and Women wtih a solely hormonal disposition who will take all comers regardless, fine or easy....

 

take into account US and EU culture places emphasis on sex as an acquisitory collectible pleasure as opposed to an actuall breeingy process with responsibility and consequences, which, in reality, is regarded as a secondary or mature form of the pleasure function.

 

then there are those awesome and rare individuals who are very picky yet also have refined taste...they are less likely to create the uber race as opposed to preserve their genetic purity.

...but they are rare indeed and are often touted as beign racist since they don't breed with just anybody....

 

in the next 1000-3000 years we'll most likely have the following:

Asiatic Peoples

Arabic peoples

Hindu peoples

Eastern European Indigenous

African Indigenous

American and European Troglodytes

American and European purestrains.

Hispanic Peoples (they get my vote if it comes down to breeding/racial war. sorry.)

VERY SUPER RARE OLD SCHOOL PEOPLES, like natives or the maori

*sigh* and i like the maori...very inspiring folk

 

sad side commentary:

(take this as it's said. i have plenty of friends in this category and mean no negative racial comment.)

:unsure:

Some Native Americans are slowly turning into caucasians. though i know those who at least try to hold on to their heritage, genetic or otherwise, others have decided to merge genes with their former conquerors.

 

i get thrown off by pale people with thin features callign themselves "native"

 

y'know, before Unca' Sam introduced them to welfare-on-the-rez living, they were awesome Conan-like folk: robust without being goblins...i see the old photo's and paintign and i feel the loss of somethign unique

sad that the last vestige is melting away

 

i blame the older sexuality portrayal in the entertainment media. whitey is hottie. be a blonde slut and reproduce.

argh!!! :angry:

 

(didja know anorexia became a plague among samoan women after the introduction of MTV???)

(it's true, look it up...)

 

 

oh well, take it or leave it. i stand resolute...

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I was thinking the residing in non-Earth locations would be likely to result in divergence even with out a catastrophe. One would imagine that we would start to develope adaptations to allow us to live more easily in our new environments. I don't beleive that teraforming would ever produce an exact duplicate to Earth. Not to mention the adaptaions we might accuire if we have segments of our population who were lived out their lives space-born.

 

Looks like I posted while you were posting...but yep...there are several theories that support what you're saying...

The divergence I was originally speaking of was around randomness....the adaptation to an environment would be more akin to natural selection, which is typically not considered a "random" genetic event.

 

And this guy's theory is absolutely dependent on the lack of random genetic events....and a large effective breeding pool. We just can't guarantee those things will persist over that amount of time.

And probabilities suggest they won't persist over that period of time...

Something as simple as an impact event could potentially morph the human race into something completely different---provided it didn't wipe us out..

Colder temperatures, function in darkness, food tolerance....etc...

 

All very interesting stuff to think about....

 

hell..we might even grow fins and start to swim in the ocean... ::D:

 

<a href="http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/25...9516-dolphins-0" target="_blank">http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/25...9516-dolphins-0</a>

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I am reminded of some quotes attributed to Arthur C. Clarke:

 

"It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value."

 

"The intelligence of the planet is constant, and the population is growing."

 

"If we have learned one thing from the history of invention and discovery, it is that, in the long run - and often in the short one - the most daring prophecies seem laughably conservative."

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It's interesting to speculate how the different planets would evolve as well...considering that terraforming is usually limited to the basic needs----so, even with terraforming------after a period of time, it's possible that the race of one planet could potentially not survive in the environment of another terraformed planet....

Take something as simple as a gravitational difference.....or atmospheric pressure...or the like....

All have the capability to cause some very severe effects, even in the slightest of changes.

Oh, no doubt, and you can actually see it for yourself to a limited effect here on earth. I invite any of you who have lived at sea level most of your lives to come visit Denver. I guarantee you that you'll have trouble breathing for the first few days at least, until you become aclimated. That experience alone should convince most skeptics that climate does make a difference.

 

I know for me, it certainly explains why we have the divergent races we do even here on earth. Now that travel is much easier and faster for the common man, we should have a "reblending" of the races, and I think we're seeing that already, though not on a wide scale. All it would take is some sort of catastrophe or event to restrict travel between regions, and we'll go right back to diverging again.

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. . . yeah . . . maybe one day Firefly will come true and be real life though I doubt it.

 

At which point I slap on the boots, the brown coat, and start blazin' the universe in my gorram ship!

 

Ditto! Well, maybe not a brown coat, but I'd definitely be down with Zoe's get up. And a firefly of my own!

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"If we have learned one thing from the history of invention and discovery, it is that, in the long run - and often in the short one - the most daring prophecies seem laughably conservative."

True enough in people actually trying to predict trends and advances. Not so true when applied to fiction, which is often wildly speculative and often unrealistic. According to Space: 1999, we should have been living on the Moon over a decade ago, and sent it hurtling into space. On the other hand, I think fiction often drives invention and discovery. Who here doesn't believe that the flip phone and it's popularity wasn't some how influenced by the communicator on the original Star Trek?

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