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Kang

Testors Dullcote going on glossy - why?!?

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As the title says, pretty much. I've looked in on a few threads where this issue came up; even posted in a couple. But I'm not trying to threadjack those folks, so here's a separate thread for the subject.

 

Looking for possible reasons why Dullcote might end up drying glossy. Here are a few possible reasons I've seen posted so far:

 

- Bad/old batch of Dullcote; buy a new can

- Need to shake it up more; like, for 2 at least full minutes

- Could be due to the brand of paint underneath

- Give up, use some watered-down RMS Matte sealer to kill the shine

- Using too much per coat

 

I've tried soaking the can in hot tap water for 15 minutes before applying, tried shaking it like a fiend, timing myself for 2 full minutes. I haven't tried doing both in the same session though. This is the first time I've used DC, due to having trouble locating the stuff, so I really hope I didn't get a bad can since any others I'm likely to find probably came from the same box, so they'd be just as old or potentially defective as mine. I'm hoping to get the Dullcote working before giving up and grabbing some RMS sealer, though I'll do it if I have to. The mini I used it on is painted in GW and RMS colors, and I've never heard of anyone claiming these brands make Dullcote go glossy. Also used some FolkArt metallic gold on one section, but I honestly am not as woried if those parts remain a little glossy.

 

In addition, I sprayed it down with craft paint (can't remember which brand) acrylic gloss spray before the Dullcote went on. Heard that gloss spray is tougher, thus helps protect tabletop minis a little better; also heard that some Dullcote over the gloss should kill all the shine. I left it to dry for close to 24 hrs after the gloss coat went on before applying Dullcote.

 

I've been giving it additional coats (after similar drying times as above), trying various solutions, but it still has that annoying shine. I'm wary of giving it too many more coats, lest it simply grow into a glassy ball with a mostly-obscured mini deep inside. But I'm willing to try one more time, if I get any good suggestions. I didn't see the "Using too much per coat" solution until after my last attempt, and I'm feeling like that may be my issue.

 

So, in the interests of seeing whether that may be the case, when you guys are (successfully) spraying Dullcote on your completed minis, how many passes with the spray do you typically make on a given side of the mini?

 

And I'd be glad to hear any other theories or solutions for what might make Dullcote turn into the Shinecote and how to avoid this experience.

 

Thanks,

 

Kang

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At most two quick passes; once the surface is slick, obviously coated with the sealer, I stop.

 

I have found in the past that with a brand new can of Dullcote glossing was likely. I did find that after using a bit of the can it became nice and flat. That argues for inadequate shaking being the culprit for my experiences, at least. ::):

 

For the record, humidity (or lack thereof) can cause sprays to react oddly, so you may want to pay attention to that.

 

I hope you can get it to work! Other than glossiness with freshly-opened cans I've had no trouble with that product at all. ::):

 

--Anne

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At most two quick passes...

Ah. Well, problem diagnosed, then. I won't say how many passes I was giving it... Let's just say the good news is that there's no way my paint job is gonna get chipped anytime soon, and leave it at that!

...I have found in the past that with a brand new can of Dullcote glossing was likely...

OK, so I might not be completely out of the woods yet. Hopefully I've already (over)used enough of the can to avoid this problem. I'll give it one more long shake and quick dusting tonight when I get home, and report back on my results tomorrow. Been using my basement for spraying since it's too cold out in the woodshed, and right now the floor down there is bone-dry (which certainly isn't always the case in my 104-year-old home), so I'm willing to bet humidity isn't the culprit.

 

Thanks, Anne. Lars too, of course...

 

Kang

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More is not better. While I don't use Dullcote any more because it can yellow, I've used it extensively.

 

When used properly (low humidity, right temperature), it will be dead flat by anybody's definition.

 

More than likely your porblem is overuse. Dullcote works by making tiny flat plates that lie at different angles and break up the light. Use too much, and the plates start to stack up into a smooth surface again.

 

I've used mine over some very glossy varnish, so that should not be your problem.

 

You can go fairly heavy - you must have soaked yours. I gave my minis enough of a spray to make them shiny-wet, then let dry and did it again. Yellowing aside, the product works marvelously.

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Sorry not by my definition.

 

I'm an experienced model builder (I've been building models for some 20 years and more now) so I have a lot of experience. Even misting on Testors Dullcote, the level of "dull" (shall we say) is orders of magnitude less to my eyes than if I use the Citadel stuff or Krylon Matte Varnish. Orders of magnitude less. Again, I wonder if we have differing conceptions of what exactly "dead flat" means...

 

Damon.

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Even misting on Testors Dullcote, the level of "dull" (shall we say) is orders of magnitude less to my eyes than if I use the Citadel stuff or Krylon Matte Varnish.

 

Dead flat. Could not be flatter. Dulls all metallic paint; makes chrome look boring. Takes all shine off of ink. No shiny reflectivity whatsoever.

 

I've used Krylon matte, and it just did not provide the same dullness. Maybe you weren't using enough. I did not mist, I gave it a pretty good covering coat, let dry, then repeated.

 

I'm also covering over very glossy polyurethane, a worst-case scenario. I don't know why our experiences are different.

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Well, I tried Anne's suggestion when I got home from work yesterday, and went back at it with just a couple of quick passes; enough to barely cover it. This morning: still glossy as ever.

 

If my problem is indeed that I put on too much to begin with, and I am fairly sure that is at least part of it, does that mean it's too late and that any more layers of Dullcote - no matter how thin - will only make things worse? I was assuming that if I put on another properly thin layer once the previous one dried, it would kill the shine. But that doesn't appear to have happened.

 

I still don't think temperature or humidity are my problems.

 

So what do you folks with extensive Dullcote experience think? Is there still hope for my mini, or should I start thinking up excuses like, "Why is he so shiny, you ask? Well, you see, he just got through an oil wrestling match... What's that? Oh, yes of course he wears his cape while he wrestles - he is a mind flayer, after all. Now stop interrupting. Anyhow, he hasn't had time to wash off all the excess Mazola yet, so obviously that's why I went out of my way to give the mini that glistening shiny look..."? Don't put anything past me; I'll do it if I have to. I'd much rather get rid of the shine though, if possible.

 

edit - BTW, my spray-on gloss acrylic is from DecoArt, if it makes a difference. I've still got some of their matte spray that I'm thinking about going back to if I can't get the Dullcote to work out. Too bad, 'cause I've heard so many good things about DC.

 

Kang

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I haven't had the problem, so this is other's advice, not my own experience -

 

If DullCote is too thick and goes shiny, adding more DullCote directly to it won't help (too thick + more DullCote still equals too thick).

 

Instead, give it a light coat of a gloss sealer. Let dry. Then give it light coats of DullCote to kill the shine.

 

I have seen that advice given on several different hobby forums.

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Krylon and Citadel Matte have never proved to be as flat as Dull Cote for me. In fact I use Krylon Matte sealer if I want a lite sheen. Dull Cote has been reliably flat - totally devoid of shine - for my applications up to the last few cans. I have heard this lately from other Dull Cote users as well so I'm inclined to believe they have a problem at Testors with recent batches (unconfirmed). Model Master Lusterless Flat which I always understod to be Dull Cote with a different label, works fine at the present time.

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Does any one of you all live anywhere close to the Lehigh Valley Pennsylvania? This is TOTALLY opposite of any experience I've had with any of these products. I would want to see with my own eyes why you all are getting a different result.

 

The technical stuff: I'm spraying dullcote over Future (enamel over acrylic, so there shouldn't be any reactivation of the underlying layers). In fact, I had sprayed a model of an M48A3 tank with Krylon matte, but then hit it with some Dullcote to give it a more satin sheen. Techniques I've used include misting (i.e. spraying lightly but going back and doing multiple coats: for a single plastic model or a group of figures this can take up to a week until I get any sort of depth), but if I spray to heavily (i.e. I do NOT mist), it goes satin on me.

 

Damon.

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I haven't had the problem, so this is other's advice, not my own experience -

 

If DullCote is too thick and goes shiny, adding more DullCote directly to it won't help (too thick + more DullCote still equals too thick).

 

Instead, give it a light coat of a gloss sealer. Let dry. Then give it light coats of DullCote to kill the shine.

 

I have seen that advice given on several different hobby forums.

Aha! Another layer of gloss in between the old shiny Dullcote layer and the new matte one, eh? I'll give that a shot.

 

Thanks,

 

Kang

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I've had glossy dull cote issues, but only when I don't shake the daylights out of the can. Shake it until you think it's well shaken, shake it some more, then keep going, and I've found it works for me!

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I've had glossy dull cote issues, but only when I don't shake the daylights out of the can. Shake it until you think it's well shaken, shake it some more, then keep going, and I've found it works for me!

Thanks for the tip, cbp. I'm 100% certain that is not the problem I've experienced though - I shook that thing like nobody's business until I thought my arm was going to fall off, swiched arms, repeated the process, then kept going, timing myself for another 2 full minutes.

 

Anyhow, I have posted a WIP thread if anyone's interested in seeing a few pix of the mini in question.

 

Thanks,

 

Kang

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After seeing the pics of the mini in question, I'm wondering if you might have a can of Glosscote with the wrong label. I don't think there's really a way to tell the difference, and they both smell the same.

 

I'd suggest trying a different can of Dullcote, bought from a different place if possible, just in case..

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