BONK! BONK! BONK!

[Kheprera]

I'm not Christian.

 

 

I put up a Christmas tree, though, and many other festive and fun decorations.

 

 

My favorite carols are the secular ones: Up on the Rooftop, Winter Wonderland, White Christmas, Jolly Old St. Nicholas... old classics. However, I also like The Little Drummer Boy, Do You Hear What I Hear, Hark, The Herald Angels Sing, and Joy to the World.

 

 

I love the spirit of the season, the festivity, the food, the decorations, the weather. I love the clash of red and green, bright lights, and the decorated houses. To me, in the coldest time of the year, the pagentry of Christmas brings warmth.

 

 

I don't celebrate the birth of Jesus. I celebrate the spirit; the goodwill towards others no matter their race, creed, or culture. I send Christmas cards, even to friends who are not Christian. They tend to reciprocate and it's always nice to hear from them, even if it's once a year.

 

 

The Christmas tree is a place for me to put up memories. Ornaments dating back into the early 20th century that belonged to my great-grandmother or those that my brother and I made when we were kids. Some of mine are ones that my father's eldest sister made for me. Some day, these ornaments will pass on to my children, along with my memories and stories of them. Hopefully, they will come to treasure them as I do.

[Ranger Man]

There are just people out there that just don't want the rest of world to be happy, have fun, and live their own lives. There is a minority that is trying to force their agenda(s) on the majority. That is the core of PCism. I have always said that being PC means having no common sense.

 

rm

[fieldarchy]

well I just think that the average citizen has no common sense.

[Mclimbin]

FA, for once I completely agree with you. I tell people I believe in God, but I don't believe in religion (that is, I know it exists...lol). I love the Christmas season because for me it means I'll be able to spend time with my family in a cozy and fun atmosphere.

 

In my opinion I think religion creates more problems that it solves. I think there are probably a lot of tolerant Christians out that, it's just that many of the ones I have met are not. Present company excepted, of course.

 

That said, how would you feel if you worked at a college that espoused tolerance and openness to all beliefs, but aroundt his time of year the only symbols you saw were Stars of David? If I were in that situation, I'd really like to see a Christmas tree put up somewhere too. I'd feel left out otherwise.

 

I've never liked the term "politically correct." It's ugly and stupid, suggesting that there is a correct way to behave today. However, I'm all for respecting others and their beliefs. Just because I don't like your religion doesn't mean you can't celebrate it the way you want.

[Enchantra]

I was going to just avoid this thread, and then I decided to post a comment because I felt it might be necessary.

 

I'm Jewish, just like that professor who complained. I've met a wide range of attitudes towards religious symbols of one kind or another among various people, both Jewish, and Non-Jewish. The man at that campus who complained is in the minority. Most Jews won't go complaining about something like that. Most of us are content to keep to ourselves on such things.

 

I work retail. I'm surrounded by Christmas from July through January. It's unavoidable. There is a Christmas tree at home my Parents put up (they're Christian). None of this offends me. I hear Christmas music daily at both my jobs, and when I'm home as my Mother loves to play it. I don't find it offensive. It does get irritating hearing the same songs over and over again, however I just try to tune it out, and if it gets to much at home I simply close my door to my room and turn on my CD player to listen to some Enya.

 

I'm an artist, historian and a social scientist by education and I guess I had the honor of learning the beauty of so many various religious symbols, artwork, and other things long before I even converted to Judaism. I think the pentogram used by Wiccans and Pagans has a beautiful pattern of radial symmetry. The moon and star used to symbolize Islam seems so simple yet beautiful in it's sheer simplicity. Sometimes "Simple is more" (Japanese proverb). The image of Buddha depending on which area of Asia you find it is sculpted to such ornate detail that you become amazed as the skill of the craftsman who painstakingly carved or sculpted every minute swirl or inlaid every piece of gold. Ever seen a bronze statue of Shiva with her Six arms all spread out within a large wheel? Sheerly impressive in the levels of detail. Da Vinci's "Last Supper" is one of those artistic works that enthralls me with it's superb attention to detail and the mastery of the human figure. I appreciate the symbolism of the various religions for the art that they are. I have an Aztec Calendar on my wall, an alabaster statue of some Greek Goddess on my dresser Dad bought 35+ years ago while he was over in Greece in the Navy. Along one wall I have carved wooden African Masks I've found at various flea markets and rummage sales, and they form a very unusual yet appealing backdrop for my framed Judaism Conversion Document next to them.

 

So what does offend me? People pushing their religions on me physically. While people may not know I'm Jewish and I understand this fact, I do tend to not like people shoving a New Testament in my face as they walk up to me in the mall and telling me I must repent for my sins and come to Jesus. Yes, I've had people do that to me. How do I handle it? Calmly. I simply look at them, and politely inform them that I already answer to G-d the Holy Father and no one else, and that I am happy with that fact. Usually that takes care of the problem. If they persist I very politely inform them that their advances are unwelcome and I walk away.

 

I once had a woman walk into Michaels and inform me that I was going to hell because my faith must be really low that I had to wear a Hamsa to keep evil from me. Excuse me? That was offensive. A Hamsa, or Hand of Fatima as it is also called is an upside down hand with either inscriptions on it in Hebrew or Arabic along with stylized designs that in North African Cultures and parts of the Mediterranean is thought to ward off the evil eye among the superstitious. I wear one now and then because I like the beauty of it - it's not some talisman or charm to me, but rather a beautiful work of human creativity.

 

The actions of one or a few don't equate to the actions of many. Please don't judge Jews by the actions of this one professor who complained and don't judge Muslims by the fact a small few have taken their beliefs to an extreme. I see to much of the later happening in this country.

 

Alright, that's my two coppers. I need to zing off to job #2 now.

[fieldarchy]

In my reading of the article I didn't even take into consideration the guy's faith who complained. I really don't have any problems with anyone of a different belief system than myself (as there are many in the world) it is simply the ignorance of this single individual (and the others who have acted like him in the past and those who will act like him in the future).

 

So, my two coppers--Jews are great! Along with a lot of other people out in the world!

 

@Mclimbin--glad you agree!

[kristof65]

To answer you Enchantra, and I beleive I'm probably speaking for most of us here - I've never actually met a Jewish person, or a Muslim, or any person of any other faith who complains about things like this. Over the years, I've known quite a few, too. Heck, my best friend in high school was a Jehovah's Witness, something I didn't even realize until he politely turned down a Christmas gift from me one year. I just read about the people who complain. So yes, I realize that those select few are the idiots who give the rest of you a bad name.

 

On the flip side, like you, I've met plenty of so-called Christians who are "in your face" about religious beliefs. Unfortunately, since Chritianity is in the majority, that means Christianity probably has the majority of these type of people.

[warlordgarou]

So, I wonder. . .

 

They are going to put up "symbols from other religions". To a lot of people (maybe not a majority, but certainly not an insignificant number), the tree is a purely secular symbol. Doesn't that mean that the university should put up a cross or a crucifix as definitive symbol of Christianity? I mean, since they want all the religions to be represented and all. . . .

[CuCulain42]

...Joy to the World.

 

I never really associated Jeramiah the bullfrog with christmas...

[tabascojunkie]

Isn't it funny how if a christian complained about a Star of David, or Kwanza decorations, they'd be labeled "intolerant", racist or worse, yet it's ok for everyone else to complain about Christmas decorations?

 

You beat me to it.

 

I'm so sick of this kind of crap. Like Sarge said, Christmas is a Christian holiday. Why does it have to be changed to include every other religious group in the freakin' world? No one forces other religions to take others into the fold of their holidays. You don't see anyone making Jewish people put a cross on top of their Menorah. Or even worse than that, take it down.

 

Grrr.

 

No offense at all to anyone of different religious persuasion, it's just that the whole subject really irritates me. I can't stand one group being singled out, for whatever reason, while everyone else can do as they please and carry on with the same thing the singled out group is being bothered for.

[fieldarchy]

I agree tabasco, it isn't fair at all. Then again when has life ever been fair?

[kristof65]

No offense at all to anyone of different religious persuasion, it's just that the whole subject really irritates me. I can't stand one group being singled out, for whatever reason, while everyone else can do as they please and carry on with the same thing the singled out group is being bothered for.

Iv'e been thinking about this - and I've decided that it really comes down to tolerance. The majority of the world is tolerant, so much so to the point that we tolerate the intolerant. And because of that, they are often left to have their way.

 

And to further complicate matters, we've realized that the majority of people who are intolerant about something are going to be found among the majority faith, race, etc in a given area. So you have more intolerant Christians or intolerant whites in America, intolerant Muslims in the Middle East, etc. At some point in time (about the time PCness came about - not necessarily the term, but the concept it's now applied to), we tolerant folk in the majority realized that the intolerant among us needed to be quieted, so that minorities could live in peace. What we didn't count on was that the intolerant among those minorities would take the opportunity to swing the tide the other way.

 

Hmm - did that make sense?

 

Anyway, I propose a new word and concept - toleranceism - those who are opposed to tolerance and acceptance of other's cultures, ways and beleifs. Those tolerancist's are the true bad guys...

[tabascojunkie]

I was thinking about something kinda like this whole subject the other day. Things like Political Correctness and the idea of letting children have free reign to do what they want with no fear of consequence because they think someone will defend them no matter what will one day lead this country further down the toilet.

 

And one day, the people that helped all this come to pass will look back and say "Oh, My, what have we done?"

[fieldarchy]

And one day, the people that helped all this come to pass will look back and say "Oh, My, what have we done?"

 

 

Wait . . . that's not happening already?!?!?!

[tabascojunkie]

And one day, the people that helped all this come to pass will look back and say "Oh, My, what have we done?"

 

 

Wait . . . that's not happening already?!?!?!

I don't think so, because from what I see, the people who are doing it and also those who allow it to happen are still doing so. As evidenced by the article in question.

 

There was one ray of light of hope recently when lots of Christians stood up for themselves and demanded some store, either Lowe's or Target I think, change the "family trees" in their ads to "Christmas trees."

 

Maybe that shows a shift starting to occur? I hope so. A return to common sense.