Rage chronicles 2008

[Arbiter10]

I like the idea of crusaders getting harder hitting knights of some type, because they really can't compete against the crimson knights with the high damage tracks high MAV, high MA and vampiric feeding.

True, 1-on-1 the a Crimson Knight is more powerful than a Justicar, but not every faction needs a models that an exact equivalent of anything else that a competing faction can bring. While more powerful, a crimson knight costs 33% more than a Justcar, so for every 3 Crimson Knights a Necro player brings, a Crusader player can bring 4 Justcars. The Justicars also have the benefit of having the ability to bring Healers to support them (Hospitaliers and all of the Crusader leaders and Elites with Healer). One more thing to consider is that vs. a Crimson Knight, a Justicar has an effective MAV 7 due to faction SAs (Smite (Undead)/1 in the deafult, Smite (Evil)/1 in the sublist) compared to the Crimson Knight's MAV 5. So, the Justicar doesn't get as many swings, but he hits harder.

 

This being said, I think it would be great if the Crusaders got another melee unit. However, instead of an ultra-heavy melee soldier, I would prefer to see something like the paladin unit someone else brought up a few posts back (sorry, I forget who at the moment): solid combat abilities (maybe not quite as good as the Justicars, since these guys are the elite fighting soldiers according to the fluff) and the Healer SA. Call them Lightbringers and base them on existing models and fluff (i.e., Sir Conlan and Sir Malcolm, both of whom are Lightbringers with the Healer SA, and the text in the Crusader book that says that the Lightbringers are paladins.)

[Arbiter10]

Sorry for the double post; I wanted to get down some random thoughts that don't quite fit with my last post.

 

Ideas that have been brought up that I really like:

 

-Battle Nun hero (a.k.a., Krissy's bodyguard): cool concept, and could be a really awesome-looking mini with the double-bladed weapon)

 

-Ghouls: I like all of your ideas for this model, SE. While I'm on Vampiric Feeding, I think someone else already brought it up, but it would be great if the Crypt Bats could use this ability too. Maybe make a vampire sublist that extended this ability to ghouls and bats? We'd need probably need more models in order to have a viable army list, but after a non-corporeal sublist, a vampire sublist seems to be the next logical branch for the Necros. Please keep Vampiric Feeding part of a Loot action.

 

-Goblins: Yes, spearmen would be first on my list of new models for these guys. Bat riders would make an awesome mini. I like playing goblin lists, but they do seem to be in need of a wider variety of models in general. I would also like to see Skralla's bullet return, if only for flavor and not so much for its tactical advantages.

 

-Ranged weapons: I liked it when the Hill Giant and Freya had ranged attacks. It really made the Hill Giant more versatile and, similar to Skralla, added some flavor to Freya.

 

 

New ideas:

 

-Make Garr a sergeant again. No love for the alpha male? Why does he have to run alone while the other war dogs get to be part of a troop? Seriously, though, he seems less effective to me as a solo than regular war dogs that are part of a larger troop. If you don't go the route of making Garr a sergeant, maybe change him to an elite with Outrider?

 

-Nefsokar non-Khamsin sublist. I've never been that interested in playing Nefsokar, but a list of nothing but undead and avatar/construct models is something I could see myself playing. This kind of list seems like the obvious choice for the next Nefsokar sublist. I also happen to like the non-Khamsin models a lot better than the Khamsin ones.

[kristof65]

Hmm - I've been thinking about the comments about the Mercs not needing monsters/giants because they have access to the monsters from all the other factions, and here's my thoughts in more detail

 

- Change of Heart only allows one data card to be converted. Most Faction lists have access to two or more monsters at a time. So even if the Mercs do have access to every other monster in the game, they can only use one at a time.

 

- Just because a card is designated a monster/giant, doesn't mean it has to be a combat machine, or have high point special abilities, or be fantastic in nature. On a battlefield, an Elephant could count as a monster and/or giant without being particularly overpowering.

 

I'd be all for taking the sisters and the lupines, making them seperate factions in their own right, removing them entirely from the Merc faction, which would mean that the Merc factioin would need some bulking out again. Personally, I think the merc faction works well as a free-for-all/testbed faction, and that eventually some of the models within it should be spun off into seperate factions in an ongoing evolution of the game. But that's just my $0.02.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Kristof65: You've given me a monster that fits with the Merc theme in my mind, the Elephant or something Elephant like, I could easily be convinced this model should be in the Merc sub-list. I'm not against them having a Large or Giant Solo models, but better to throw out ideas regarding what kind.

 

herzogbrian: I don't really see the need for feeding to be anything but a loot action, unlike Healer the model that needs the healing has to spend the action, which makes it far more difficult for vampire models to gain anything more than the occasional damage track back unless you spend all your time running around. Also, remember that unlike the previous iteration of the game, models in Warlord are now quite a bit more expensive in most cases, so a 1000 point enemy army likely has fewer models than it used to, which makes feeding far less effective than it was.

 

Likewise Vampires now have far more damage tracks as well, so healing back a single damage track isn't nearly as reviving as it used to be. Combat is also a lot more lethal, making it likely that vampires never get the chance to heal back up. Sure it is a nice ability, but also remember we are talking about a faction that has

no clerics or healer models, and which really only has a few models that use the feeding rules. The more models the enemy has on the board, the better for a Vampire player, remember that when building your army to fight against them.

 

More thoughts:

 

I'll second the motion on Garr, that change to him really peeved me, I don't care if he is a Sergeant (after all that required a special faction rule for him) just make him an Elite (with or without outrider).

 

Magic Items Redux:

 

Striking Spear of Aurellius:

Type: Melee Weapon Upgrade

Availability: Crusader, Model with Reach SA

Unique: Yes

Effects: +1 MAV, Model contributes +2 Support bonus when using Reach SA (maximum reach support of +3 still applies)

 

Helm of the Hawk:

Type: Ranged Weapon Upgrade

Availability: Elite or Leader Model with Ranged attack (Don't see a need for this to be Crusader only)

Unique: Yes

Effects: Models Ranged attack gains an additional +6 inches to its maximum distance.

 

Bonesplitter, Axe of Grauga:

Type: Melee weapon upgrade

Availability: Reven Warlord

Unique: Yes

Effects: Model gains the Shock SA

 

Mask of Khardullis:

Type: Specialty Upgrade

Availability: Overlords Elite, Leader or Solo

Unique: No

Effects: Model gains the Fearsome SA

 

_______________________________________________

 

Pondering more new content:

 

Lash of Loyalty

Type: Weapon Upgrade

Availability: Evil or Neutral Leader models

Unique: Yes

Effects: Model gains mob leader/3 SA, models already having the mob leader/x ability gain +3 to that value, this upgrade stacks with the mob leader upgrade provided by the Reven faction abilities Horde, and Goblin Horde. (Could be a smaller value as well Mob Leader/2 or Mob Leader/1 would be fine as cheap alternatives if mob leader/3 seems a bit much).

 

new overlord model:

 

Bond Slave Slinger: 1 track, move 7, MAV 2, #MA 1, DV 7, RAV 3, range 12, mob, Defensive shot

 

___________________________________________________

 

Ok, a lot of people have mentioned a few peeves about models that got changed with the release of RC 2007, so I'll gripe about the 2 datacard changes that annoyed me most:

 

1) Orc Warriors, and Orc Spearmen. Ok, maybe I'm biased, but when I think standard traditional Orc I think tough as nails, hard hitting melee models. I understand Bull Orcs fill that role, and do it quite well, so the standard Orc is 'Lesser', which is fair enough. At 18 points, the Orcs are mere carbon copies of their human counterparts, the Mercenary Spearman and Mercenary Warrior, something I find very disappointing. A slight change to the Orc datacards to make them different would be nice. +1 MAV? or maybe just an extra wound track with the same initial stats? (Of course with the required points increase) I don't know; I'm probably the only person out there that fields Orcs, so I may be biased, but the single attack makes them pretty dismal, at least give them a little staying power or slightly more punch (granted at 18 points you can field a few of them). I doubt they will change, but I rant about it anyhow :)

 

Still if a few more Orc models with a little more variety came into the game I'd be less whiney about their current datacards.

 

2) Lord Kentaur, once the Necropolis' best Leader model, I feel like he really languishes behind some of the other Captains now. It isn't so much that he isn't a decent model, it is that he used to be pretty savage on the battlefield in addition to have the cool added bonus of Tactician and being capable of bringing an extra Elite. Now the poor guy feels so dainty with his dismal 4 tracks of damage. Give Kentaur back his dignity, slap on another damage track and make him Moandain's right hand man again, the guy who the Lichiest of Liches picks to lead his army, not a back bencher to Azarphan (who would remain a sweet model with is Smite, extra DV, and cheaper price, assuming Kentaur's cost went up a fair bit with a 5th damage track).

 

Rant off, just getting it off my chest.

[DanyBoy]

Well I have a few more bones to pick with some of the RC 2007 Data Cards too. Some models that I really loved have become in my humble opinion, ineffective.

 

Lord Ironraven: he should be Gerard second in command and a model to be feared. Maybe give him an additional damage track and warmaster. Or maybe Critical Strike/2 could be added. Now he’s nothing more than a big Ironspine…

 

Marcus Gideon: do the Crusaders need another cleric? Make him a more powerful fighter/rogue so he can be useful against non-undead foes…

 

Skeletons: why did I buy them again?

 

Gargram Heavyhand: I love this model; make him a bit stronger…

[spiritual_exorcist]

-Goblins: Yes, spearmen would be first on my list of new models for these guys. Bat riders would make an awesome mini. I like playing goblin lists, but they do seem to be in need of a wider variety of models in general. I would also like to see Skralla's bullet return, if only for flavor and not so much for its tactical advantages.

.

 

The only problem with Gobbo spearmen is that you might have to drop their faction ability that allows support bonus' to go as high as +5 if you were to give them Reach. Possibly a Gobbo spearman could just be a goblin with First strike though, using a very short spear not long enough to provide reach I guess.

 

Skeletons: why did I buy them again?

 

Because they are cheap and cost effective? As much as I might have woofed about the Orcs in my previous post (It isn't that the datacard sucks, merely that it isn't quite Orky enough to me), it doesn't mean that at 18 points (like your skeletons) they aren't very cost effective , the key is ganging up and using them in numbers.

 

I suspect very few of the current datacards will see any real changes, the call for changes to such cards need to be heavily justified, probably with playtest material suggesting some sort of lack of balance. Simply saying X card sucks, make it better probably won't get us anywhere (I know I woofed about Kentaur, and I know he isn't going to change, because as much as he might not be as effective as he used to be, he is still a model well worth his 66 points on the field). We're more likely to see changes like turning Garr into an Elite to make him more likely to be fielded, or giving Skralla back her ranged attack because the model clearly is hoding a gun.

 

Gideon is pretty clearly a cleric or Paladin, complete with Holy symbol held high. Better to offer an alternative that justifies a new datacard than trying to get his card changed. Likewise Gargram is like Kharg, or Athak, essentially the standard soldier datacard +1 Dis that appears in many factions, changing him would prompt calls for a change to all these other low-level sergeants, truthfully if you want a more powerful option I'd jump up to Fulumbar (even if you want to use the Gargram model I'm sure your opponent would let you so long as you made it very clear in the beginning of the game).

[Gus Landt]

Crusaders (default)

 

Release the Hounds: Garr may be fielded as a Unique Sergeant with Troop size 4-11/1. Garr can only field War Dogs as Soldiers to fill his troop. Garr can field the Hound of Judgement (and only the Hound) as an Elite.

[DanyBoy]

I stand corrected.

 

Thanks.

[Arbiter10]

Release the Hounds: Garr becomes a Unique Sergeant with Troop size 4-11/1. Garr can only field War Dogs as Soldiers to fill his troop. Garr can field the Hound of Judgement (and only the Hound) as an Elite.

 

Cool. Thanks, Gus. Now, about some of those other ideas...

[Saint Vierzehn]

Dwarven Elder: Non-unique hero, low MAV, 1 attack, DV 8 - 10, cleric 1/4, CP 7, 3 damage tracks.

 

-StV.

[outek]

Crusaders:

- Garr...taken care of (thanks).

- Currently they are almost exclusively a melee type army (I have no problem with, fits the idea of the 'knights'). They are lacking in any effective means of dealing with flyers (sublist has no 'range', I.C. archers are not IMO very effective for cost, Uriel's role as I see it is not as an 'anti-air' role). As a 'fluff' type unit, perhaps something along the lines of Falconers (nobles/adepts with trained birds of prey...releasing falcon/hawk representing their ranged attack).

 

Necropolis:

- Heavy cavalry (mounted knights)...could make Vandrian unit leader

- Heavy infantry, 'Wight' (an armored version of skeletons between skeleton warrior/Crimson Knight)

- For the 'wild hunt' idea, undead wardogs (similar to "Komray and the dogs of war" minis)

 

Lupines:

- A non-adept unit(s)

- Wolf pack(s)

- A non-unique Leader/SGT

- Perhaps a 'non-transformed' unit/model (mayhap a solo of the 'druid' type)

- Own/sub faction

[spiritual_exorcist]

Dwarven Elder: Non-unique hero, low MAV, 1 attack, DV 8 - 10, cleric 1/4, CP 7, 3 damage tracks.

 

-StV.

 

I like that, although I might like a Unique version with Tactician even better.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Crusaders (Army of Justice Sublist)

 

Release the Hounds: Garr becomes a Unique Sergeant with Troop size 4-11/1. Garr can only field War Dogs as Soldiers to fill his troop. Garr can field the Hound of Judgement (and only the Hound) as an Elite.

 

 

I have to say I really dislike this idea for one major reason: Garr and War Dogs are Ivy crown units.

 

It makes little sense for Ivy crown units to be suddenly available as part of the Army of Justice Sub-list.

 

I like the concept (although I'd still rather see the base Garr model be an Elite with Outrider), but Release the Hounds should either be a Default faction ability or an Ivy Crown sub-list faction ability should such a sub-faction evolve, as neither models are currently part of the Army of Justice, and I see no reason to change that given their background information.

 

Not sure I'm that keen on the Elite selection and Garr bringing along the Hound of Judgement, seems sorta silly to me, but I could live with that, I'd simply choose to not employ it.

 

Still, I do want to see Garr leading a pack of dogs again very much so.

[Brushmaster]

Crusaders (Army of Justice Sublist)

 

Release the Hounds: Garr becomes a Unique Sergeant with Troop size 4-11/1. Garr can only field War Dogs as Soldiers to fill his troop. Garr can field the Hound of Judgement (and only the Hound) as an Elite.

 

 

I have to say I really dislike this idea for one major reason: Garr and War Dogs are Ivy crown units.

 

It makes little sense for Ivy crown units to be suddenly available as part of the Army of Justice Sub-list.

 

I would have to disagree since the fluff says the Garr was found and saved by Sir Damon . I could quite easily see Garr having some loyalty to Sir Damon and tagging along occasionally , bringing a pack of mates with him . What I can't see is why this ability isn't available to the whole faction .

[spiritual_exorcist]

Garr and the War dogs are not among the models available to the Army of Justice. In order to add this Army 0f Justice faction ability, they would also have to be added to that list of models. Do I see this as unreasonable? Not really, the Army of Justice could use Dogs as well. Also the wording of 'Release the hounds' suggest Garr may not be fielded as a Solo if one chooses, which is weird given that it is his base model type (granted I'll still lobby his transformation to an Elite Hero model).

 

However, what we do know is that the Ivy Crown Skirmishers do explicitly fight with War Dogs in tow, and that Garr was gifted to the leader of the Ivy Crown, and has become a beloved member of the Ivy Crown. (War Dogs being an integral part of the Skirmishers, and thus the Ivy Crown, is noted in both theirs, and the Skirmishers descriptions).

 

So I'll stand by my argument that this should be a default, or Ivy Crown specific ability (and should Garr and War Dogs be put into the Army of Justice list, I don't mind the ability appearing there as well, but not exclusively; but I see no real reason for them to be added to that list).

 

______________________________________________________

 

 

Just a side thought on the War Dogs, I wouldn't mind seeing them be given the mob ability. I know this isn't a traditional 'cheap' model that would have it, but it seems somewhat fitting that a few dogs might accompany an otherwise full troop.

 

Grant Lady Jehanne mob leader/3, Herne mob leader/2, and give any additional Ivy Crown Leaders mob Leader/2. Or this could possibly be an Ivy Crown faction ability.

 

Ivy Crown Sub-Faction Abilities:

 

Pack Leader: A player may choose to field Garr as a Unique Solo model, an Elite choice (Unique Hero), or as a Unique Sergeant with Troop size 1/0 and the Mob Leader/5 SA.

 

Release the Hounds: War Dogs in the Ivy Crown sub-list gain the Mob SA, in addition, all Ivy Crown Leaders gain the Mob Leader/2 SA, or +2 to their already existing Mob Leader value.

 

Flanking Manuevers: Ivy Crown Skirmishers and Alphonse (see below) gain the Backstab/1 SA. (In otherwords, the model gains the same +1 Reaer Combat situational bonus as any other model, but the defender cannot make the standard free facing change)

 

Poor man's Knights: Ivy Crown Skirmishers, and Lancers gain the Tough/1 special ability.

 

Hospice of Gianovia: Although Hospitaliers are not standard members of the Ivy crown, and may not be selected as such, they may be included in Ivy Crown armies as Elite model choices, with their model type changing to: Hero.

 

New Ivy Crown Models

 

Lord Renauld

Statistics: Unique Captain model with 4 damage tracks, Move 6, DV 10, MAV 5, #MA 3, Tough/1, Deflect/2, Backstab/2, Raider/2, Ranger, Troop 4-8/1

 

Alphonse, Skirmisher

Statistics: Sergeant model with standard Skirmisher statistics and +1 Discipline, Troop 4-6/0

 

Gregory, Kennel Master*

Statistics: Unique Sergeant model with 3 damage tracks, Move 7, DV 10, MAV 4, #MA 3, Tough/2, Raider/2, Warmaster, Troop 4-6/1

Spire Knights (Pikemen)*

Statistics: Soldier Adept with 3 tracks, DV 11, MAV 7, #MA 1, Tough/1, Reach, First Strike, Fearless

 

Undead Hunters*

Statistics: Soldier Adept with 3 tracks, DV 10, MAV 5, #MA 3, Deflect/1, Raider/2, Ranger, Backstab/2, Smite(undead)/1

 

 

*Even without the addition of these models an Ivy Crown sub-faction could easily be created with the simple addition of a SGT and Captain model, it is really all that is needed for a bare bones sub-faction

 

Faction Sublist models:

Leaders:

Lady Jehanne

Lord Renauld

Alphonse

Acacia

Herne

Gregory, Kennel Master

Elites:

Halbarad

Valandil

Ian

Isarah

Devona

Marcus Gideon

Hospitalier (see Hospice of Gianovia faction ability)

Soldiers:

Undead Hunters

Spire Knights

Ivy Crown Lancers

War Dogs

Ivy Crown Skirmishers

Ivy Crown Archers

Solos:

Garr

Hound of Judgement

Celestial Lion

Models that change to Non-Unique/Grunt:

Herne, Sergeant

Lord Renauld, Captain

Light Lancer, Grunt

War Dogs, Grunt

 

Anyway, just selfishly pondering ideas and hogging this thread :)