New Datacards

[dewen]

Charnel Grub. 6 (!!!!!!!) attacks, high MAV, and warmaster (of course). And good DV. And lots of toughness. AND POISON STRIKE? For 124 points, this thing can wipe out the front line of most armies, and then get back up and do it again.

This guy goes down pretty quick when a few models with Disable SA are on it. I played with it thinking he was pretty awesome and it played pretty balananced. Not all models are affected by poison either.

[Gus Landt]

Can't seem to find the Equipment + Spells + FA stuff in the download, where should I be looking?

My bad! Don't know where my head was. That document will be available (as a Public Beta) in another day or two. My BL team is still proofreading it.

[wildbill]

Charnel Grub. 6 (!!!!!!!) attacks, high MAV, and warmaster (of course). And good DV. And lots of toughness. AND POISON STRIKE? For 124 points, this thing can wipe out the front line of most armies, and then get back up and do it again.

This guy goes down pretty quick when a few models with Disable SA are on him. I played with him thinking he was pretty awesome and he played pretty balananced. Not all models are affected by poison either.

 

Yeah, but how many people actually use Disable troops? If I do have them in my army, it is usually by chance. I rarely design an army with them in there on purpose. Of course, that is just me.

 

Wild Bill

[Gus Landt]

As for concerns about the Bloodstone Gnomes, I'll be the first to admit that on paper, they seem horribly broken. However, everytime they get playtested, all of my playtesters come back to me with 'wow, they weren't nearly as powerful as I thought'. So yes, you really need to play a few games with them first. Those 2 damage tracks on most models mean they get wiped out pretty quick. 1 Lightning Blast knocks out a whole row of soldiers that you can quickly sweep in and coupe.

Earlier versions of the Gnomes, with less powerful stats, just got wiped out time & again.

 

That said, this is exactly why we post Public Betas a few weeks before we do the final. There is only so much testing our in house team & BLs can get done, and this gives those who are interested a chance to playtest upcoming rules and provide feedback. If playtesting isn't your thing, then please ignore the public beta and just sit tight for a few weeks when the final version is posted and RC07 is replaced.

[Qwyksilver]

Most of my front line soldiers have 3-4 tracks, at least.

Presuming all attacks hit, and all poison tokens are effective, maximum troop loss would be one, maybe two models.

 

Or I risk potentially losing 2 tracks on multiple soldiers, presuming everything hits.

 

My front liners often also have Warmaster. So then the Grub is dead on counterattacks, or if neccesary, with another round of combat. With the tougher DV, just bring in some Reach, or tag it with a spell or ranged attacks to soften it up.

 

And DV 13 isn't that difficult to crack with a couple models in support. Adepts often run with multiple attacks at MAV 6.

 

And the Grub has 4 tracks, as many as some of my soldiers. And isn't likely to be bringing friends.

 

It's a lot less scary than it looks.

 

It also only gets back up if you choose to ignore an opportunity to CdG it. If you do that on a Tough/5 model, that's your own mistake.

 

And if it does get back up on that last track. Innate(Bolt) him dead. Any caster that misses on that deserves to get eaten.

[Gaming Glen]

I took a look and compared the new Elf datacards with the previous ones. I find it interesting how archers got reduced in points a bit. But then, two Vale Warriors worth 30 points each seemed a much better deal than one Vale Archer at 60 points with the previous costs. Makes me glad I haven't played a real game yet with my elven army as I might have been destroyed with the overpriced models and blamed either my bad tactics or bad die rolls (but then the latter would be nothing new to me, especially considering how bad they were in that other Warlord game, the CCG).

 

But, Argyrian (Silver Dragon) STILL does not have a breath attack?

[GreyHorde]

Speaking for myself, I would much rather have an open, public beta test of rules, proxy or otherwise, influencing the game with our VOLUNTEER playtesting and review. Can you imagine the opposite attitude, where the rules are published in armor-plated, steel-reinforced concrete and the company takes a 'tough, deal with it or wait for the next expensive book set' stance? Oh, wait, we don't have to imagine it because there are plenty of them out there with that attitude, one big one in particular.

[kristof65]

GreyHorde - you have that wrong. The one big one DOES listen to feedback - it just uses that feedback to release a completely new version every 4-5 years, so that you have to pay to see the feedback poorly implemented.

 

I like the public betas as well, as well as what seems to be the annual commitment to tweak the game AND release the updates at no charge.

 

I'm reserving further comment until I see the rest of the RC documents - the datacards themselves don't quite tell me everything I want to know.

[dewen]

The first time I played the BSG, I got smoked. They are different to play (at least what I am used to). I initially saw nothing "broken". I will continue to play them and see how things shake out.

[wildbill]

I was looking through the Darkspawn, and I noticed a big solo changed.

 

1) It was initially called Maladom, Fire Demon. Now it is Maladorn, Fire Demon. Is that correct?

 

2) Originally it had Flyer. That is now gone. Is that correct?

 

a) If Flyer is removed, why was it removed?

 

Wild Bill

[GreyHorde]

GreyHorde - you have that wrong. The one big one DOES listen to feedback - it just uses that feedback to release a completely new version every 4-5 years, so that you have to pay to see the feedback poorly implemented.

 

I like the public betas as well, as well as what seems to be the annual commitment to tweak the game AND release the updates at no charge.

 

I'm reserving further comment until I see the rest of the RC documents - the datacards themselves don't quite tell me everything I want to know.

You're right, good point. I guess it was a math error. I thought: 5 years between responses to feedback + poor implementation of same + making the player pay for it = not listening. I sit corrected.

 

Back on topic, I've only looked directly at Dwarves to see what changed, and the troop values seem to be the biggest movers. Most look like improvements, but playtesting is not so easy for me these days. For SA changes, the one I am most curious about is Herryk losing Defensive Magic.

 

I've also glanced at the Elves, but that's about all I've had time for so far. I'll second the query about the Silver Dragon not having a breath attack, like an improved version of SA: Blowthrough or something like that.

[wildbill]

Back on topic, I've only looked directly at Dwarves to see what changed, and the troop values seem to be the biggest movers. Most look like improvements, but playtesting is not so easy for me these days. For SA changes, the one I am most curious about is Herryk losing Defensive Magic.

 

I may be able to speak intelligently about this one. If I remember correctly, ALL clerics lost Defensive Magic. (Of course, as soon as I open mouth, I'll be inserting a foot with a big ol' stinky sock on it!! ) I think the reasoning was something like "What spells can a cleric cast defensively?" I am pretty sure that answer is "None."

 

Wild Bill

Edited March 10, 2008 by wildbill

[Saint Vierzehn]

But, Argyrian (Silver Dragon) STILL does not have a breath attack?

 

You're probably never going to see a flying shooter on any list. It was tried once, and it's not a good game mechanic.

 

A flying shooter with an AOE would be even worse.

 

-StV.

[Saint Vierzehn]

My front liners often also have Warmaster.

 

Oh, well, the grub has disable, too. If your front-liners have 3+ melee attacks, I'll simply use the grub's move 7 to hit you somewhere else, avoiding your expensive front line entirely.

 

So then the Grub is dead on counterattacks, or if neccesary, with another round of combat.

 

By the time you go to "another round of combat", this beastie has (at a minimum!) had two rounds of defensive strikes and one round of its own offense. That's 18 MAV 7 attacks with poison and disable, and it only needs to put down 2-4 models to break even on its points.

 

With the tougher DV, just bring in some Reach,

 

Lessee... three front liners plus a couple of models with reach support will run you about 150 points, especially if you want your font line to be beefy enough stand up to this thing for a round.

 

I'm already coming out ahead on this exchange just by tying up more of your army's resources than I'm having to commit.

 

 

or tag it with a spell or ranged attacks to soften it up.

 

That's more of your resources committed to this thing. It's earning it's keep just by being a target.

 

You have a partial point, here. What you're descirbing is the best way to deal with the grub. But it's still not a cost-efficient solution. There is no cost-effective response to the thing. And that's its problem.

 

And the Grub has 4 tracks, as many as some of my soldiers. And isn't likely to be bringing friends.

 

Maybe in your universe. In mine, I plan to keep a bunch of 22-point scrubs around him for support.

 

 

 

It also only gets back up if you choose to ignore an opportunity to CdG it. If you do that on a Tough/5 model, that's your own mistake.

 

So, you're not going to charge it, right? After all, when you charge and attack, you don't have actions left to coup. So you're conceding the charge. That means I get to pick the point where we first engage, and I'll be targeting one of your models that I can expect to put down in one round. If you're lucky, you'll score 1 point of damage with your defensive strike (Disable, remember? And I don't need to coup, because I can just let the poison run), but I'll be ~40 points to the good.

 

Now it's your turn again. Want to charge?

 

Oh, and don't forget, the grub is fearsome, too, which is another disincentive for your charge.

 

 

And if it does get back up on that last track.

 

... with toughness 5 and 6 MAV 5 disable attacks with poison and move 6, yes.

 

Innate(Bolt) him dead. Any caster that misses on that deserves to get eaten.

 

No, you knock him down tough again. Whoopee. BTW, how many points did you spend on that wizard of yours?

 

Look, the grub can be killed. But in order to do it, you're going to have to commit a whole lot more than 124 points to pull it off, and we haven't even started talking about what happens if I keep a 36 point Matron within 4" of him.

 

-StV.

[wildbill]

Look, the grub can be killed. But in order to do it, you're going to have to commit a whole lot more than 124 points to pull it off, and we haven't even started talking about what happens if I keep a 36 point Matron within 4" of him.

 

Or I just play Dwarves against you and it's no longer a problem.

 

Wild Bill