New Datacards

[Gus Landt]

For Ivy Crown Archers, they will be going up to 49 points to account for their new +1 RAV and Marksman/2. Still don't think that's good enough? You will when you find out we're adding Ranged Support into the game.

 

So am I just blind or did ranged support not make the cut? or do I misunderstand and its just that archers got a points reuction and alot of figs lost deflect points?

Love the new stuff by the way I am just curious

Thanks Gus and all you BL out there.

Quite a bit changed in the last month. Playtesting showed us we needed to go a little different route, so archers got cheaper and deflect got reduced. We decided that at 35 points and Marksman 2, they didn't need a higher RAV. We didn't want them to be elite archers, so I figured IC Archers are the guys who shoot tons of arrows hoping to hit something, as opposed to the elves, who take their time and shoot right the first time.

[Feanor]

OK that makes perfect sense thanks Gus

[Hellsgate]

Well as I said, we had a run with the BSG on sunday.

 

First off Burshmaster feilded 1000pts of Reven vs. BSG. The "They Came from Below" came in very helpful. Thanks to that (and unlucky rolling to force them to surface) the beetle rider lancers worked extreamly well sitting there untill the softer targets came within their 12" charge. The ones that were forced to the surface, did about as much as a i'd expect from a 44pt model and not much more. Pulger's and tunnel knights in a box fomation around two sides of Ever Living and Shaerdra (a low wall covered another side) was a deadly combination, plugers made tunnel knights truly deadly, 3 mav 5+2(trencher) on the defencive... you do the maths. As for grub, it took only 3 models (124pts) to drop it. They were all dropped in turn, but Grub would have also stayed down, had Ever living not cast cure2 before a CDG.

 

End game: a solid win for the BSG, though i'd put it down to the list being unsuited to taking the list. AOE's or fliers/burrowers to reach the back line would have drasticly changed the odds.

 

 

Next I took a pure range/magic Reptus force against the BSG (once more 1000pts played by Brushmaster). Archers/venomspitters to the flank were taken out by the lancers who were attacking in the second turn. Javeliners were wiped out, but left the bulk of the troop at a safe range for spells. AOE's were effective, while lightning blast cut through the grunts. Once more the Grub wasn't overly powered. Only killing a wounded javeliner and venom spitter before placing the last wounds on Po Wi-Set who in turn finished the grub off as well.

 

End game: close in BSG favour. a balanced force with the mages would have easily defeated them, a rock friend or two would have helped as well (I didn't take one, as wrighting a list spicificaly to counter the BSG wouldn't give feedback.)

 

 

Over all: "They Came from Below" is a stronge FA. But relitively easy to minimize it's effectiveness. Nothing to me seemed overpowered or underpowered. In future, i'd avoid head on attacks, and use magic. Nice army fun to play but beatable.

[bluethunder]

Looking over the new SA's and FA's, I must say that I am intrigued with Leap and The Koborlas' FA Feral Rage. I also like the Mec FA Alliances reforged. It allows me to continue to use the merc army that I built.

 

Ok, I've been surprised that the Koborlas haven't been talked about more. My local group seemed to have trouble winning with them, so I decided to take a stab at it. I looked at the list and the FAs. My choice was obvious:

 

Totem of Battle

 

Troup 1

Slayer captain and 6 slayers

 

Troup 2

Warlord (greater armor, avenger and greater RA), shaman (holy symbol, bless, Cure 2 x 2) and two line breakers.

 

1495 points

 

The enemy played the female dwarf sub list with 8 healers the goddess, shield maidens, forge maidens etc.)

 

he kept his healers behind the shield maidens (the slayers charged right over the maidens heads and killed half the valkyries in the first round of combat! He failed to base my fearsome slayers with most attempts, and so he also kept loosing a lot of defensive strikes to shock. It didn't help him much that my whole army was in the perfect spot to use the feral rage ability.

 

50 % of his army died by the third turn and I only lost one model. When we left he said he was going to by a Korborlas army, and the others in the group and the others started thinking about just how nasty a slayer based army was...

 

Could someone else give that slayer list a little more testing to see if my results were a fluke?

Edited March 18, 2008 by bluethunder

[spiritual_exorcist]

11 models in a 1000 point army is probably the reason no-one is getting fussed about them. Not to say they arn't decent, but there are plenty of ways to handle high priced models and armies with low model counts.

 

Funny, I've never been beaten by an army and thought 'Gee, I want that army', I generally want to figure out what I did wrong, or what weakness the army has that can be exploited.

 

In this case you exploited Leap to Kill his Healers, in essence you used your models Leap, Fearsome, and Shock Special Abilities to beat him, If he was smart he would limit those SA effect on the game next time. I certainly would never get discouraged by such a loss, especially given that he would have been playing his army (girly dwarves) for possibly the first time.

 

Lupines are fairly low MD in general, this can be exploited, the Slayers have many points wrapped up in SA, but with only 2 attacks they are vulnerable to being mobbed quite easily so long as you pass your discipline tests to base them. Dwarf Discipline isn't that great, so I'd probably consider using Standards against the Lupines.

 

As many Dwarf Warriors + Piercers+ Halbardiers as you can bring would be the order of the day for me, no fancy tricks or gimmicks, just as many attacks as you can put on the board using the cheapest models possible. That would be the first thing I tried to beat your Lupines.

[vejlin]

Looking over the new SA's and FA's, I must say that I am intrigued with Leap and The Koborlas' FA Feral Rage. I also like the Mec FA Alliances reforged. It allows me to continue to use the merc army that I built.

 

Ok, I've been surprised that the Koborlas haven't been talked about more. My local group seemed to have trouble winning with them, so I decided to take a stab at it. I looked at the list and the FAs. My choice was obvious:

 

Totem of Battle

 

Troup 1

Slayer captain and 6 slayers

 

Troup 2

Warlord (greater armor, avenger and greater RA), shaman (holy symbol, bless x 2, Cure 2 x 2) and two line breakers.

 

The enemy played the female dwarf sub list with 8 healers the goddess, shield maidens, forge maidens etc.)

 

he kept his healers behind the shield maidens (the slayers charged right over the maidens heads and killed half the valkyries in the first round of combat! He failed to base my fearsome slayers with most attempts, and so he also kept loosing a lot of defensive strikes to shock. It didn't help him much that my whole army was in the perfect spot to use the feral rage ability.

 

50 % of his army died by the third turn and I only lost one model. When we left he said he was going to by a Korborlas army, and the others in the group and the others started thinking about just how nasty a slayer based army was...

 

Could someone else give that slayer list a little more testing to see if my results were a fluke?

 

Why are you using the Totem? I count a little over 1500 points in that army, so you're paying 150 points for the totem. Magic Weapons for all 11 models would only cost you 110 points.

 

Other than that I see the Lupine list having problems against many armies, specifically those with fearless/undead or high DIS. Personally I'd bring standards versus this army. There are a lot of armies out there that aren't too severely affected by shock and fearsome (undead lists, darkspawn and default overlords plus anyone investing 15 points on standards)

[shakhak]

...snip...

 

Why are you using the Totem? I count a little over 1500 points in that army, so you're paying 150 points for the totem. Magic Weapons for all 11 models would only cost you 110 points.

 

...snip...

Slayers and Line Breakers are beasts. So the only way to knock up their MAV is through spells and totem.

[Stubbdog]

with the changes to how fearsome works for 2008, undead will no longer be immune to it. They are also not immune to shock.

[vejlin]

...snip...

 

Why are you using the Totem? I count a little over 1500 points in that army, so you're paying 150 points for the totem. Magic Weapons for all 11 models would only cost you 110 points.

 

...snip...

Slayers and Line Breakers are beasts. So the only way to knock up their MAV is through spells and totem.

 

ah, makes sense now.

[Warwick]

Hey, what? What was that? Undead aren't immune to Fearsome and Shock now? What for? Were the undead ravaging so much you had to nerf us? Look, I'm a centuries-old, blood-drinking vampire. Exactly why do I fear a Bear Rider?

What prompted such a total reversal?

[Stubbdog]

Ok, I admit I spoke a little quick as I dont have my books in front of me right now, but the upcoming change is that the affect of fearsome will go back to the original ruleset before the 2007 change. That ruleset saying that a failed discipline roll on an attempted basing of a fearsome model results in the charging model, standing still and losing that action. From my memory, which could be wrong as again I dont have my books in front of me at the moment, says nothing about undead being immune to that feature.

[shakhak]

Looking at the Public Beta RC'08, it looks like Undead are not immune to Fearless, but are still immune to Shock.

 

I think it should be the other way around. Undead are hard to scare, but can be caught unprepared by a model with shock.

 

I think even Vampires should be difficult to scare. They may have much to lose, but do they truly die on the battlefield or do you have to follow their ghostly forms back to the crypt with stake in hand to finish them off?

[bluethunder]

with the changes to how fearsome works for 2008, undead will no longer be immune to it. They are also not immune to shock.

 

I assume that is because niether generates a shaken token, but will that be stated explicitly, and if it already is... what page?

[bluethunder]

Looking at the Public Beta RC'08, it looks like Undead are not immune to Fearless, but are still immune to Shock.

 

I think it should be the other way around. Undead are hard to scare, but can be caught unprepared by a model with shock.

 

I think even Vampires should be difficult to scare. They may have much to lose, but do they truly die on the battlefield or do you have to follow their ghostly forms back to the crypt with stake in hand to finish them off?

 

These are just thoughts on shock. I know these are not actual rules, but...

 

In my mind I don't view shock as entirely a fear effect. I see it potentially being unable to process an attack in time for a response. You freeze because your brain has trouble dealing with all the information and it stops (brain fart???). You may not even have time to be afraid.

 

For example you could imagine watching a train wreck as it happens. You are not in danger, and yet you still stand transfixed by the immenseness of the catastrophe as it is happening. It may even seem as though time stands still for a moment.

Edited March 18, 2008 by bluethunder

[bluethunder]

11 models in a 1000 point army is probably the reason no-one is getting fussed about them. Not to say they arn't decent, but there are plenty of ways to handle high priced models and armies with low model counts.

 

Funny, I've never been beaten by an army and thought 'Gee, I want that army', I generally want to figure out what I did wrong, or what weakness the army has that can be exploited.

 

In this case you exploited Leap to Kill his Healers, in essence you used your models Leap, Fearsome, and Shock Special Abilities to beat him, If he was smart he would limit those SA effect on the game next time. I certainly would never get discouraged by such a loss, especially given that he would have been playing his army (girly dwarves) for possibly the first time.

 

Lupines are fairly low MD in general, this can be exploited, the Slayers have many points wrapped up in SA, but with only 2 attacks they are vulnerable to being mobbed quite easily so long as you pass your discipline tests to base them. Dwarf Discipline isn't that great, so I'd probably consider using Standards against the Lupines.

 

As many Dwarf Warriors + Piercers+ Halbardiers as you can bring would be the order of the day for me, no fancy tricks or gimmicks, just as many attacks as you can put on the board using the cheapest models possible. That would be the first thing I tried to beat your Lupines.

 

I also exploited feral Rage. It the first round of combat all of my slayers had 3 attacks at plus 10 to hit! My DV is 14, and when he attacked me with his Swarm of dwarf chicks, warmaster kicked in with 3 defensive strikes at plus 10 as well. I crippled or killed almost half the army in one round! admittedly he had the other half of his army huddled around the Goddess, and completely out of position... I attacked his far left flank, and that gave me at least a full turn and a half before he could get the rest of the army into position. It was the relitive speed of the wolves that enabled me to do that.

Edited March 18, 2008 by bluethunder