Undead Hunter

[spiritual_exorcist]

Alright, so normally when a Smite(x) SA appears it appears in with the Melee SA on a datacard and is clearly meant to be used as part of a Melee attack action. I suppose it is possible it could be included as a ranged attack SA, but I don't recall ever seeing that.

 

A couple weeks ago I ran a Necropolis army vs. a Default Crusader list, and a big question came up regarding the Undead Hunter FA and its granting of Smite(Undead).

 

My main question is, should this apply only to Melee attacks. My thinking is possibly yes, but seeing as how it is appears on the Melee SA portion of all datacards it doesn't specifically say that under the Smite(X) SA. So I was forced to concede that the Smite(Undead) SA granted by Undead Hunter could be applied to Ranged attacks, and Attack Spells as well since it isn't specifically categorized in any way as only affecting melee combat. I'm not sure this is the intent of the rule, it seems a bit much, I can live with it if I have to, but I would prefer to get some sort of clarification, as up until now I had assumed it was a melee ability.

[shakhak]

The smite SA makes mention of Critical shot, so even though nothing uses it yet, it can be used as a such.

 

"Smite (x)/# SA

A Model with the Smite (x) SA gains a bonus

when attacking any Models of the (x) type. (x)

can be anything including a Model type, an SA,

Alignment, or Affi liation. When a Model with

this SA attacks a Model that is the (x) listed in

this SA it adds +(#) to all attack rolls. Smite

stacks with other bonuses like Critical Shot/

Strike, even other Smite SAs. Thus a Model with

Smite (Evil)/2 and Smite (Undead)/2 gains +4

against Evil Undead Models."

 

 

If a ranged model had the SA I'm sure it would show up on their Ranged attack also. Just as Improved Charge shows up on both the base data card and a Flyer's MOV portion of the card.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I hand't noticed that, so in the case of Smite(undead)/1 granted by Undead Hunter it doesn't seem out of line for that to apply to all attack, melee, ranged and attack spells?

 

I will say that I do think it is a big assumption to make that 'IF' a model with a ranged attack had Smite(x) in their melee SA they would automatically have in in their range SA. Also, there are plenty of models with Smite(X) that have spellcasting abilities and Smite(x) is never placed in their Spellcasting SA section.

 

The ranged attacks doesn't really bother me much (although to me a Smite is a melee strike, I guess it is the D&D player in me ), it is the spellcasting that I have real doubts about because we have models like Marcus Gideon and Herryk that show us they don't have Smite(x) in their Spellcasting SA section.

[Hellsgate]

Based on the SA it's posable for a model to have smite(x) in their ranged or magic. We might even see it in the future. Though I don't play undead or Crusaders (or evil cause of "Judgment"), I'd alow it to all that was aplicable.

[DanyBoy]

The same question came up last year in my gaming group. I found this answer on the Crusader Forum:

 

Quote from Qwiksylver June 4th 2007:

 

"Also, lets not forget, Smite is added to ALL attacks rolls.

Ranged, Melee, Attack Spells."

 

Follow the link:

 

http://www.reapermini.com/forum/index.php?...30&start=30

[spiritual_exorcist]

Interesting. I'd still like to see that added to the Undead Hunter FA clarified to say just that so there isn't even any confusion or speculation. I won't argue the point, merely that it needs to be spelled out clearly so that there is no doubt exactly what it applies to.

[Stubbdog]

We will pose it to Gus for clarification, but it is fairly clearly written. It says "all attack rolls". The only confusion is that fact that it seems that it shows up in the wrong place on the data card.

[spiritual_exorcist]

It is clear to you because you are playing with the game designers. A simple note in the Undead Hunter FA would suffice.

 

So in the case of Marcus Gideon and Herryk you think that these models should have Smite(x) on their spellcasting attacks as well? Your Reasoning being that they should have the Smite(x) in the non-melee portion of their datacard. As it stand that is 100% not the case and I think you'd have a tough argument for making that sort of change (Moving Smite out of the Melee SA section)

 

So Marcus Gideon would become a CP 9 caster against undead in a defualt list? I dunno man that sounds pretty unreasonable to me. There would be some pretty serious consequences to such a proposition.

 

I'd rather have the Smite(X) ability remain the same, and included in the Melee, Ranged, and Spellcasting SA sections if they are intended to have smite in one or more of those sections, and have a small sentence in the Undead Hunter SA.

 

Note that we did interpret it as applying to all forms of attacks, after a few minutes of checking and double checking, we could have been saved the time with:

 

Undead Hunter

All Cruader Models gain the Smite(Undead)/1 SA, this ability benefits all Melee, Ranged, and Spellcasting actions made against Undead models. Models that already have Smite(Undead) gain +1 to their Smite(Undead)

 

So Marcus Gideon would gain Smite(Undead)/3 with melee attacks and SMite(Undead)/1 with spells he casts. Which is the way it currently works as far as I can tell.

 

I'm not trying to change anything or complain, merely to clarify something that I think is slightly unclear, simple as that.

 

If you really did want the Smite(x) to apply to different attack forms I'd just include in in each of those Combat SA sections (Much like improved charge is included both in the regular SA section and in the Flyer SA section for completeness

[Stubbdog]

I am not saying I want it either way. Just saying that the black and white description of it currently seems pretty clear. Now the intended verses the black and white is definitely up to being possibly not matching up.

 

The way I am seeing it, there are three possibles:

 

1. The smite is in the right place but worded wrong

2. The smite is worded right, but located in the wrong place

3. Smite as it is currently written is both in the wrong place and also worded wrong.

 

In one of those, the wording for Undead Hunter FA is possiblyalso affected depending on the outcome of the SA.

 

As such, I have added this thread as a point of interest for Gus for when he comes back on line.

 

Unfortunately, will be a couple of weeks or so, so we will all have to hang tight on this until that time.

[spiritual_exorcist]

No worries, we'll just put it on the big list that Gus will have to deal with once he gets settled.