Familiars/Holy Symbols and Counter Spell

[Saint Vierzehn]

Trying to build a Chorus But it looks like I'm singing a SOlo!

 

 

Nope. This time you've made a sound argument and presented it well.

 

Magic defense is no longer optional for a player that expects to be competitive, and the game offers very few ways to obtain it. One method is to have a lot of healing and toughnes, but even that can be overwhelmed. Another is to have lots of damage tracks (4+) and low point cost - something almost unheard of in this game, and rightly so. The final option is counterspells.

 

And that's why it is important for counterspells to be available and effective for every army. Not every army can or should rely on toughness/healing as the Crusaders are able. Not every army can or should consist primarily of dwarf warriors and other targets that are so meaty and price efficient as to have a certain form of innate magic resistance, simply by being able to soak up the damage. For armies that can't do either of those things, counterspells are a must. And even for armies that can do those things, counterspells are a good choice for a multi-layer defense.

 

Heck, if there's anybody that should be screaming for more effective counter-magic, it's the Darkspawn. With little toughness, no healing, none of the elven defensive magics, and high point cost models, they're very susceptible to being blasted.

 

Generally speaking, it's the arnies that are best suited to dishing out magical damage that are most in need of defense from it.

 

With the way things are now, the most efficient build for most wizards will be 2-3 ice blasts and a counterspell or two. Big AOE's will rarely pay sufficiently anymore, but persistently repeated one-target spells might. And the prevelence of high-damage, one-target spells will only serve to improve the utility of inexpensive models relative to big point sinks. Lots of ice blasts and ice storms will spell the end of effectiveness for 50+ point adepts, non-magic heroes, and solos. 15 points to knock a 60 point model down to its last damage track? Sure, I'll take some of that... especially since the best you can do is delay it, not stop it, and even trying to delay it will sink even more of your points.

 

Maybe once the fanboys figure out that better counterspells are the only reliable & effective way to defend the expensive stuff of which they are so fond we'll see a real cry for change. Until then, the best solution is even more of the low-point "scroll caddies" that they so detest.

 

-StV.

[shakhak]

...snip...

 

With the way things are now, the most efficient build for most wizards will be 2-3 ice blasts and a counterspell or two. Big AOE's will rarely pay sufficiently anymore, but persistently repeated one-target spells might. And the prevelence of high-damage, one-target spells will only serve to improve the utility of inexpensive models relative to big point sinks. Lots of ice blasts and ice storms will spell the end of effectiveness for 50+ point adepts, non-magic heroes, and solos. 15 points to knock a 60 point model down to its last damage track? Sure, I'll take some of that... especially since the best you can do is delay it, not stop it, and even trying to delay it will sink even more of your points.

 

Maybe once the fanboys figure out that better counterspells are the only reliable & effective way to defend the expensive stuff of which they are so fond we'll see a real cry for change. Until then, the best solution is even more of the low-point "scroll caddies" that they so detest.

 

-StV.

Emphasis above was added.

 

If you could field the spells alone... without a mage... and cast target models with them, I might be able to understand your 15 vs 60 comparison.

Currently the cheapest mages in the game are ~40 points. If you want that familiar on your mage you have to add on another 15... So those 3 Ice shards are costing about 35 points a pop.

 

Are they deadly? Of course. But when I risk 100+ points on a model with a DV 8, I better get some kind of bang, because I doubt he will make it through the entire game. A mage stacked like that is just a plump ripe fruit waiting for even the average player to take a few shots at them and take them out of the game before they can cause havoc on the board.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I might agree that Scare has dropped too much, it might not have needed to drop at all. Its sort of one of those less used spells in my mind (I'm sure there are many groups who do us it, but I haven't seen it used much.

 

Take Bless, it is 10 points and give +1 to all rolls

 

Scare is 5 points and gives +2 to attack rolls against the affected models, (given that it is a ranged attack and Bless isn't I'd say this alone is worth 8-10 points, it isn't as easily cast a Bless and not nearly as versatile but it does have advantages)

 

Slow is 5 points and causes 1 model to lose 1 non-combat activation

 

Scare is 5 points and causes affected models to use a combat action or continue to remain shaken and suffer the consequences of that.

 

Scare is a 5 point spell, and in a rare event (very rare) if you can shake an out of cohesion shaken unit you can force the model to retreat.

 

It is probably a 10 points spell in my mind, but it won't be a real game breaker unless we see an army with 10 Lunks each running around with 2-3 Scares (Which is possible in 1000 points). Then the difference between 5 and 10 points might start to add up (10 Lunks X 3 scares x 5 points = 150 points).

 

The best thing I can say is that every time you take a Mage slap a Scare or 2 on it and see how effective it is over and over. Does your opponent learn to deal with it and its effect become less? I dunno, things like this are the reason for the beta.

[shakhak]

I agree with you that there are some spells that dropped a little too much.

 

I'll go ahead and start another thread for that topic, so we don't get this one too far off track from discussing Familiars and counter spells.

[vejlin]

Maybe once the fanboys figure out that better counterspells are the only reliable & effective way to defend the expensive stuff of which they are so fond we'll see a real cry for change. Until then, the best solution is even more of the low-point "scroll caddies" that they so detest.

 

-StV.

 

Ok everyone else is trying to have a civil discussion that hopefully leads somewhere. Your tone is very negative (my perception granted) that it really is hurting the debate. Dismissing those with different opinions as foolish is not good for a healthy debate that will help the game in the long run.

 

I get that you think everyone not agreeing with you must be less intelligent or something (like your previous claim of superior analytical skills to anyone on these forums) but could you please keep your feelings of superiority to yourself? It's getting pretty old and is also pretty offensive and arrogant.